The Jewish roots of Christianity

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Series: “Whose Land Is It?”
We have combined the two “View from ‘Palestine’” interview programs with Zola’s “Whose Land Is It?” lesson.
Episode: “The View From ‘Palestine’” with Hanan Ashrawi, Part 2
Zola visited Ramallah and interviewed Hanan Ashrawi, considered by some to be the Darth Vader of Palestinian spokespeople. She eloquently articulated the Palestinians’ best arguments for being the true owners of Israel. Subsequent review sessions with two scholarly Arab Christians, journalist Joseph Farah and Professor Ergun Caner, unveil the fallacies in her assertions. This one-hour duo could be the ultimate crash course on credibly and diplomatically asserting Israel’s right to her land.

Caption transcript for Whose Land Is It?: “The View From ‘Palestine’” with Hanan Ashrawi, Part 2 (2/3)

  • 00:09 BRETHREN, MY HEART'S DESIRE AND PRAYER TO GOD FOR ISRAEL IS THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED.
  • 00:15 THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE JEW AND THE GENTILE.
  • 00:18 FOR THE SAME LORD OVERALL IS RICH UNTO ALL THAT CALL UPON HIM.
  • 00:24 ZOLA LEVITT PRESENTS
  • 00:28 CONSIDERING THE TIMES AND SEASONS OF OUR WORLD TODAY, HERE'S ZOLA LEVITT.
  • 00:34 SHALOM, HELLO AGAIN. WE'RE CONTINUING FROM LAST WEEK.
  • 00:38 I THINK, A VERY INTERESTING AND EDUCATIONAL SORT OF PROGRAM.
  • 00:43 ON OUR LAST ISRAEL TOUR WE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL INTO RAMALLAH, IN THE WEST BANK,
  • 00:48 WHICH HAS TURNED OUT TO BE THE DE FACTO PALESTINIAN CAPITAL, IF YOU WILL.
  • 00:53 THAT'S WHERE ARAFAT'S HEADQUARTERS IS AND THAT'S WHERE WE ENCOUNTERED
  • 00:57 WITH A PALESTINIAN FILM CREW WHO WERE VERY COURTEOUS AND PROFESSIONAL,
  • 01:02 THEY TOOK US TO DR. HANAN ASHRAWI, WHO IS ONE OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY SPOKESPEOPLE.
  • 01:08 SHE HAS RECENTLY APPEARED IN THE UNITED STATES AT UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO, I BELIEVE.
  • 01:13 SHE HAS, BEFORE, BEEN A SPEAKER HERE.
  • 01:15 SHE TAUGHT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA.
  • 01:18 SHE GAVE US HER VIEW OF THE WHOLE CONTROVERSY GOING ON IN ISRAEL.
  • 01:25 I LISTENED POLITELY. I DID NOT INTERRUPT OR ARGUE.
  • 01:29 MUCH OF WHAT SHE SAID IS WORTH HEARING AND QUITE TRUTHFUL.
  • 01:36 OTHER THINGS ARE MORE CONTROVERSIAL.
  • 01:39 RATHER THAN BEING A SPOKESPERSON,
  • 01:41 WE TURNED THIS FOOTAGE OVER TO 2 ARAB-CHRISTIAN EXPERTS THAT WE KNOW.
  • 01:46 DR. ASHRAWI IS AN ARAB-CHRISTIAN AND HER PEER, DR. ERGUN CANER, IS AN ARAB-CHRISTIAN.
  • 01:51 HE'S A PROFESSOR AT CRISWELL COLLEGE IN DALLAS.
  • 01:54 THEN, JOSEPH FARAH, THE EDITOR OF WORLD NET DAILY,
  • 01:57 A VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ARAB-AMERICAN CHRISTIAN.
  • 02:01 DR. CANER WAS RAISED AS THE SON OF A MUEZZIN, AS A MUSLIM. HE THEN CONVERTED TO CHRIST.
  • 02:09 JOSEPH FARAH WAS RAISED IN AN ARAB-CHRISTIAN FAMILY.
  • 02:13 THEY DIFFER IN THAT RESPECT, BUT AT THIS POINT THEY ARE HER PEERS
  • 02:17 AND THEY COMMENTED ON WHAT SHE SAID.
  • 02:20 SO, NOW PICKING UP WHERE WE LEFT OFF LAST WEEK,
  • 02:24 WE'LL HEAR FROM DR.ASHRAWI AND THEN OUR COMMENTATORS.
  • 02:29 I READ AN ARTICLE ABOUT YOU IN AN ANGLICAN MAGAZINE DESCRIBING YOUR CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY.
  • 02:33 IT WAS EXCELLENT.ON THE MCNEIL/LEHRER REPORT YOU MADE A STATEMENT THAT WAS CURIOUS.
  • 02:38 YOU SAID JESUS CHRIST WAS A PALESTINIAN PROPHET, BORN IN BETHLEHEM, IN MY COUNTRY.
  • 02:43 I WONDERED ABOUT THAT.
  • 02:46 WELL, OF COURSE HE WAS BORN JEWISH,
  • 02:48 BUT HE WAS A PALESTINIAN BECAUSE HE WAS BORN IN PALESTINE.
  • 02:50 THERE ARE STILL MANY JEWISH PALESTINIANS, OF COURSE,
  • 02:54 BUT THOSE WHO CHOSE TO BE ISRAELI ARE ISRAELI JEWS.
  • 02:59 THERE ARE MANY MOSTLY OUTSIDE OF ISRAEL WHO ARE PALESTINIAN-CHRISTIANS.
  • 03:02 THERE ARE SOME WHO ARE PLURALISTIC.
  • 03:05 I FELT THAT HE BELONGS TO MY HERITAGE, TO MY PAST.
  • 03:08 WE ARE THE MOST ANCIENT CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY.
  • 03:12 HE WAS A PALESTINIAN, HE WAS A JEW AND HE BECAME A CHRISTIAN.
  • 03:17 WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE OF HANAN ASHRAWI'S CHRISTIAN TESTIMONY A LITTLE BIT.
  • 03:22 I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, PARTICULARLY FOR AMERICAN AUDIENCES
  • 03:27 THAT WHEN PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE EAST TALK ABOUT THEMSELVES AS BEING CHRISTIAN,
  • 03:32 OFTEN WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS A FORM OF CULTURAL CHRISTIANITY
  • 03:36 RATHER THAN A DEEP-SEEDED BELIEF OF THE HEART.
  • 03:41 I BELIEVE THAT'S WHERE HANAN ASHRAWI IS COMING FROM IN DEFINING HERSELF AS A CHRISTIAN-ARAB.
  • 03:48 SHE TALKS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST BEING A PALESTINIAN.
  • 03:53 HER RATIONALE FOR THAT IS THAT HE WAS BORN IN PALESTINE.
  • 03:56 WELL, THAT'S KIND OF LUDICROUS BECAUSE THE FIRST TIME THE TERM PALESTINE IS USED IS IN 70 A.D.
  • 04:04 WHEN THE ROMANS RENAMED ISRAEL PALESTINE AS A WAY OF ADDING INSULT TO INJURY
  • 04:11 AFTER THEY DESTROYED THE TEMPLE AND COMMITTED GENOCIDE AGAINST THE JEWS.
  • 04:16 THE IDEA THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS A PALESTINIAN IS VERY MUCH OF A STRETCH.
  • 04:23 WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, THIS IS ALMOST A FANTASY,
  • 04:26 BUT LET'S SAY A TWO-NATION SOLUTION IS FORMED OR SOMETHING LIKE IT,
  • 04:30 BUT PALESTINIANS HAVE A NATION TO CONTROL AND SINCE THEY'RE LARGELY MUSLIM,
  • 04:36 THEY BEGIN TO ACT LIKE A MUSLIM GOVERNMENT?
  • 04:40 THEY TELL YOU TO COVER YOUR HAIR AND THIS SORT OF THING?
  • 04:43 HISTORICALLY, PALESTINE HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST TOLERANT, OPEN,
  • 04:47 LIBERAL AND PLURALISTIC SOCIETIES IN THE ARAB WORLD, IN THE REGION.
  • 04:52 TOLERANT! OPEN! I WONDER HOW SHE WOULD CLASSIFY THE 6 DAY WAR. WAS THAT TOLERANT AND OPEN?
  • 05:02 HOW ABOUT YOM KIPPUR?
  • 05:04 WE HEAR IN OUR CULTURE TODAY, ESPECIALLY IN AMERICA IN THIS WINTER,
  • 05:07 THAT WE SHOULD NOT BOMB DURING RAMADAN, THAT WE SHOULD NOT BOMB DURING ID AL-FITR.
  • 05:12 WE SHOULD NOT BOMB DURING THE HOLY DAYS OF MUSLIMS BECAUSE THIS WOULD OFFEND THEM WORLDWIDE.
  • 05:16 HOW OFFENSIVE WAS IT FOR THEM TO PICK THE HIGH HOLY DAY,
  • 05:19 THE DAY OF ATONEMENT, FOR THEM TO BOMB ISRAEL?
  • 05:25 HANAN ASHRAWI SAYS THAT PALESTINE HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE OF THE MOST OPEN, LIBERAL,
  • 05:30 PLURALISTIC AND TOLERANT SOCIETIES IN THE REGION.
  • 05:33 WELL I DON'T KNOW WHAT TIME FRAME HANAN ASHRAWI IS TALKING ABOUT.
  • 05:37 FIRST OF ALL THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A PALESTINIAN STATE.
  • 05:40 THERE'S NEVER BEEN A SOCIETY, A SELF-GOVERNING ENTITY
  • 05:44 KNOWN AS PALESTINE IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.
  • 05:48 SO YOU FIRST OF ALL HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF WHAT PALESTINE IS HANAN ASHRAWI TALKING ABOUT WHEN SHE DEFINES IT THAT WAY?
  • 05:55 IF YOU WANT TO USE LIBERAL, PLURALISTIC, TOLERANT AND OPEN SOCIETIES
  • 05:59 AS THE STANDARD FOR THE MIDDLE EAST, THERE IS ONLY ONE. IT'S THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
  • 06:05 IT'S THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY IN THE REGION OUT OF 23 ARAB AND MUSLIM STATES,
  • 06:13 ALL VARYING FORMS OF TOTALITARIAN POLICE STATES
  • 06:16 AND ISRAEL IS THE ONLY LITTLE TINY BASTION OF DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM IN THE REGION.
  • 06:23 ISLAM HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE MOST INCLUSIVE RELIGION BECAUSE IT DIDN'T COME TO DENY PREVIOUS RELIGIONS.
  • 06:28 IT CAME TO AFFIRM THE TWO PREVIOUS RELIGIONS.
  • 06:33 MY PROBLEM IS WITH THOSE IN ALL RELIGIONS, WHETHER ISLAM, CHRISTIANITY OR JUDAISM,
  • 06:39 WHO GIVE THEMSELVES LICENSE TO INTERPRET IN THE MOST RIGID, DOGMATIC MANNER HOLY TEXT
  • 06:47 AND TO USE THEM TO PUNISH, TO POUND, TO BASH THE OTHER AND TO NEGATE AND TO DENY THE OTHER.
  • 06:53 THAT IS THEIR PROBLEM AND YOU HAVE THOSE ELEMENTS IN ALL 3 RELIGIONS.
  • 06:58 I BELIEVE FUNDAMENTALISM IN CHRISTIANITY IS JUST AS DANGEROUS, IF NOT MORE SO,
  • 07:02 THAN IT IS IN ISLAM, THAN IT IS IN JUDAISM.
  • 07:05 WELL, I THINK AMERICANS WOULD SAY RIGHT THERE, BUT WAIT A MINUTE,
  • 07:09 FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIANS HAVE NOT ATTACKED ANYONE OR BROKEN DOWN A WORLD TRADE CENTER.
  • 07:15 WELL, IT FINDS MANY DIFFERENT EXPRESSIONS.
  • 07:18 FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS ALSO NEGATE THE VALIDITY AND LEGITIMACY OF THE OTHER, WHICH IS VERY UNCHRISTIAN.
  • 07:24 BECAUSE CHRISTIANITY IS A VERY TOLERANT--
  • 07:26 AND THEN FUNDAMENTALISTS TELL ME I HAVE NO RIGHT TO EXIST AS A PALESTINIAN
  • 07:32 REGARDLESS OF MY RELIGION AND INSIST ON NEGATING MY VERY RIGHTS, WHICH IS WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW.
  • 07:39 THEY'RE TELLING ME THAT I SHOULD ABANDON MY LAND, MY HISTORY, MY CULTURE, MY SECURITY,
  • 07:43 MY LIFE FOR THE SAKE OF THEIR INTERPRETATION OF THE BIBLE.
  • 07:47 THIS, TO ME, IS THE MOST DOGMATIC AND RIGID AND UNCHRISTIAN AND INHUMAN WAY.
  • 07:54 WHAT I FIND FASCINATING IS EVERY TIME WE HAVE A RELEASED TAPE BY OSAMA BIN MOHAMMED BIN LADEN,
  • 07:59 OR BY MULLAH OMAR, THE FIRST GROUP TO WHICH THEY SPEAK IS NOT THE INFIDEL COMMUNITY.
  • 08:06 IT'S NOT THE PEOPLE OF THE GREAT SHATAN.
  • 08:08 IT IS, IN FACT, SPEAKING TO OTHER MUSLIMS.
  • 08:11 WHEN THEY SAY, YOU HAVE BEEN OBLIGED; YOU HAVE BEEN FARDIL, OBLIGED TO HOLY WAR.
  • 08:17 IN OTHER WORDS, THEY DON'T SEE THEMSELVES AS FUNDAMENTALISTS. THEY ARE PURISTS.
  • 08:21 THEY BELIEVE THE KORAN. THEY BELIEVE THE HADITH.
  • 08:24 THEY BELIEVE THAT ONCE YOU HAVE BEEN OBLIGED TO HOLY WAR, YOU MUST FIGHT HOLY WAR.
  • 08:29 THEY ARE NOT FUNDAMENTALISTS. INSTEAD, THEY VIEW THESE MUSLIMS AS BAD MUSLIMS.
  • 08:36 IF A STATE IS ESTABLISHED, DO YOU SUPPOSE HAMAS AND OTHER MILITANT GROUPS WILL STOP THE RESISTANCE?
  • 08:44 OH, YES THEY WILL, OF COURSE.
  • 08:47 YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HAMAS AND ISLAMIC JIHAD AS PALESTINIANS ORGANIZATIONS
  • 08:54 AS OPPOSED TO OTHER PAN-ISLAMIC ORGANIZATIONS, IS THAT THESE ARE LINKED TO A CERTAIN NATIONAL STRUGGLE.
  • 09:00 HAMAS AND JIHAD, THEY'RE PART OF A STRUGGLE AGAINST THE OCCUPATION.
  • 09:05 IF YOU REMOVE THE OCCUPATION, YOU DISARM AND DIFFUSE--
  • 09:09 THEY DO NOT HAVE A GLOBAL MESSAGE. THEY ARE NOT OUT THERE.
  • 09:14 THEY'VE NEVER CARRIED OUT ACTIONS OUTSIDE OF PALESTINE.
  • 09:16 THEY'VE NEVER BEEN OUT THERE TRYING TO EITHER PROSELYTIZE
  • 09:19 OR KILL PEOPLE OR IMPOSE A PAN-ISLAMIC AGENDA. THAT'S ONE.
  • 09:23 TWO, I THINK THAT WE HAVE SUFFICIENT DEMOCRATIC FORCES IN PALESTINE
  • 09:28 IN ORDER TO WEAKEN EXTREMISM BY DEMOCRATIC MEANS.
  • 09:33 THIS IS HOW WE SHOULD DEAL WITH IT.
  • 09:36 THE MAJORITY OF PALESTINIANS ARE COMMITTED TO A 2-STATE SOLUTION.
  • 09:41 THEY'RE COMMITTED TO ACCEPTING THE OTHER.
  • 09:44 THEY'RE COMMITTED TO THIS INCLUSIVE APPROACH.
  • 09:47 THEY DON'T WANT TO DESTROY THE STATE OF ISRAEL OR REPLACE THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
  • 09:53 HANAN ASHRAWI SUGGESTS THAT THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE SUPPORT A 2-STATE SOLUTION.
  • 10:00 IN OTHER WORDS, THE IDEA OF A SEPARATE PALESTINIAN STATE,
  • 10:03 A SEPARATE ISRAELI STATE LIVING SIDE BY SIDE IN PEACE AND HARMONY.
  • 10:08 I HAVE CAREFULLY LOOKED AT EVERY PUBLIC OPINION SURVEY DONE OF ARABS IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD
  • 10:14 AND I SEE NO EVIDENCE TO BACK THAT UP.
  • 10:17 I WISH IT WERE SO. I WISH IT WERE SO.
  • 10:20 BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS FROM MY OWN PERSONAL ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCE,
  • 10:26 THE INTERVIEWS I'VE CONDUCTED ON THE GROUND THERE, I SEE NO EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST THAT.
  • 10:31 IT'S WISHFUL THINKING ON HER PART AT BEST.
  • 10:46 I'VE BEEN LISTENING TO ZOLA FOR 5 OR 6 YEARS.
  • 10:49 WHEN MY MOTHER CALLED AND SAID, "I'M PLANNING A TRIP TO ISRAEL. WOULD YOU LIKE TO GO?"
  • 10:53 I DIDN'T HESITATE.I SAID, "ABSOLUTELY."
  • 10:55 SHE SAID,"DO YOU KNOW ANYWHERE OR HOW TO GET THERE?"
  • 10:57 I SAID, "ABSOLUTELY, LET ME GIVE ZOLA A CALL."
  • 10:59 THIS IS THE MOST SPECIAL PLACE IN THE WORLD AND THIS IS THE PLACE WE WANTED TO BE.
  • 11:04 WE CAN'T IMAGINE THAT WE'RE HERE.
  • 11:06 IT'S, YOU KNOW, WE JUST CAN'T IMAGINE WE'RE HERE.
  • 11:15 WELL, OUR TOURS OF THE HOLY LAND CONTINUE AS USUAL. THEY'RE SOME TENSION OVER THERE.
  • 11:20 IT'S NOT AS DANGEROUS AS STAYING HOME AND I'VE SPECIFIED THAT MANY TIMES.
  • 11:25 ON OUR LAST TOUR WE HAD THIS OPPORTUNITY, IF YOU JUST TUNED IN,
  • 11:29 TO GO TO RAMALLAH AND TALK WITH DR. HANAN ASHRAWI,
  • 11:33 ONE OF THE SPOKESPERSONS FOR THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.
  • 11:37 YOU'VE SEEN HER ON THE NEWS I'M SURE
  • 11:39 AND WE TOOK THAT FOOTAGE TO ARAB-CHRISTIAN EXPERTS OF OUR OWN ACQUAINTANCE,
  • 11:44 DR. ERGUN CANER AND JOSEPH FARAH AND THEY COMMENTED ON WHAT SHE SAID.
  • 11:50 I STEPPED OUT OF IT, I'M THE NEUTRAL OBSERVER.
  • 11:53 I GOT THE TESTIMONY FROM HER AND I TOOK IT TO THEM IS ALL AND HERE IS HOW IT CONTINUED.
  • 12:01 IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE IN LIGHT OF, PERHAPS HE'S OVERLY RADICAL,
  • 12:04 BUT A HAMAS LEADER SAID THAT THIS RESISTANCE, THIS MORE THAN RESISTANCE,
  • 12:10 THIS MILITANCY WILL CONTINUE UNTIL ALL OF THE JEWS LEAVE THE LAND OF PALESTINE.
  • 12:14 IT'S NOT A 2-STATE SOLUTION.
  • 12:16 NO, THE MAJORITY OF THE PALESTINIANS ACCEPT THE 2-STATE SOLUTION.
  • 12:21 LET ME PRESENT YOU WITH A HYPOTHESIS.
  • 12:23 LET'S SAY THAT A GROUP IN IDAHO OR IOWA, OR SOME SMALL STATE SETS UP A COMPOUND,
  • 12:29 FENCES IT IN AND CLAIMS IT TO BE THE NATION OF THIS COMPOUND.
  • 12:34 TO PROVE THEIR POINT, THEY STOP PAYING TAXES.
  • 12:38 THEY SET UP THEIR OWN BANKS. THEY SET UP THEIR OWN SYSTEMS.
  • 12:40 TO FURTHER PROVE THEIR POINT, WHEN THE POLICE IN THAT CITY
  • 12:43 OR NEARBY THAT COMPOUND COME BY THEY SHOOT THEM.
  • 12:47 THEY BEGIN TO GO INTO THE NEIGHBORING CITIES AND THEY BOMB PEOPLE.
  • 12:52 SOME OF THEM EVEN STRAP BOMBS TO THEMSELVES, WALK INTO THE STORES
  • 12:56 AND INTO THE RESTAURANTS AND STRAP BOMBS TO THEMSELVES.
  • 12:59 THEY MAKE THE POINT AND THEY SAY, WE WILL NOT STOP THIS
  • 13:01 UNTIL YOU RECOGNIZE OUR COMPOUND AS A SEPARATE, SOVEREIGN NATION.
  • 13:07 WHAT WOULD WE DO AS AMERICANS? WHAT WOULD OUR COUNTRY DO?
  • 13:11 THAT IS WHAT WE ARE ASKING ISRAEL TO DO.
  • 13:15 WE ARE ASKING TERRORISTS TO SET UP YOUR OWN COUNTRY.
  • 13:19 WE ARE ALLOWING THEM TO BOMB ISRAEL, TO JUST ABSOLUTELY OBLITERATE INNOCENT CIVILIANS
  • 13:25 AND WE ASK THEM TO THINK THAT THESE ARE ACTS OF WAR, NOT TERRORISM.
  • 13:30 THEN, WE ARE ASKING ISRAEL TO RECOGNIZE THEM AS A STATE, TO BENEFIT TERRORISM.
  • 13:37 WHY WOULD WE NOT DO THAT IN AMERICA?
  • 13:39 OBVIOUSLY TWO REASONS COME TO MIND.
  • 13:41 ONE, THAT'S NOT THE WAY A SOVEREIGN NATION OPERATES.
  • 13:44 SECONDLY, IT REWARDS TERRORISM.
  • 13:48 WOULD WE ALWAYS SUSPECT THAT THEY MAY DO MORE TO GET MORE LAND?OF COURSE.
  • 13:53 SO SHOULD ISRAEL.
  • 13:54 THIS IS A TIME FOR CHRISTIANS AND EVANGELICALS,
  • 13:57 FOR JEWS TO UNITE TOGETHER AND BAND TOGETHER. WE CANNOT REWARD TERRORISM.
  • 14:01 WE CANNOT REWARD ACTS OF TERRORISM ANYMORE ON OUR LAND AS WE WOULD ASK ISRAEL TO DO ON ITS
  • 14:09 I CAN ALMOST HEAR AMERICAN'S SAYING, BUT WAIT, DR. ASHRAWI, THERE ARE PEOPLE--
  • 14:13 A HUNDRED PLACES IN THE WORLD ARE OCCUPIED.
  • 14:16 THEY DON'T ACTUALLY KILL THE OCCUPANTS.
  • 14:18 THERE IS NO OTHER OCCUPIER.
  • 14:21 HOW ABOUT IF YOU LIVED IN AMERICA.
  • 14:23 WE HAVE NATIVE AMERICANS ON RESERVATIONS.
  • 14:25 THEIR NATIVES TO THE LAND, YET THEY'RE OCCUPIED TOTALLY.
  • 14:30 THEY DON'T COME OUT AND KILL PEOPLE.
  • 14:32 THAT SITUATION, YES.
  • 14:34 THAT SITUATION WAS RESOLVED IN A WAY WHICH WAS ENTIRELY UNFAIR TO THE INDIGENOUS AMERICANS.
  • 14:39 IT'S NOT IN RECENT HISTORY AND IT HASN'T BEEN VIEWED AS AN OCCUPATION OR A STRUGGLE FOR INDEPENDENCE.
  • 14:48 THE INDIAN NATIONS ARE SEEKING THE RECOGNITION OF THEIR OWN IDENTITY AND NATIONHOOD WITHIN THE LARGER AMERICA.
  • 14:57 NO, HERE WE ARE SEEKING OUR FREEDOM BECAUSE WE ARE UNDER MILITARY OCCUPATION.
  • 15:02 ONE OF THE TERMS THAT DEFINES THE DEBATE FOR PALESTINIAN ARABS IS THIS WORD - OCCUPATION.
  • 15:09 WE HEAR IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. WE'VE HEARD HANAN ASHRAWI USE IT AGAIN.
  • 15:13 WE SAY THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE COUNTRY OCCUPIED IN THE MIDDLE EAST
  • 15:17 AND IT'S THE COUNTRY OF LEBANON WHICH IS OCCUPIED BY SYRIA.
  • 15:21 THERE IS A FORM OF OCCUPATION IN PALESTINE TODAY
  • 15:26 AND IT'S THE OCCUPATION THAT YASSER ARAFAT IS EMPLOYING OVER THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE
  • 15:32 IN THE WEST BANK AND GAZA AND SO FORTH.
  • 15:34 ALL OF THAT LAND WAS GIVEN TO THE JEWS UNDER THE ORIGINAL U.N. MANDATE.
  • 15:40 THERE IS ANOTHER PALESTINIAN COUNTRY TODAY KNOWN AS JORDAN.
  • 15:45 IT'S ALWAYS BEEN PREDOMINATELY PALESTINIAN POPULATION.
  • 15:48 THAT REALLY OCCUPIES MOST OF THE TERRITORY THAT WAS GRANTED TO THE ARABS UNDER THE ORIGINAL U.N. MANDATE.
  • 15:59 THIS WHOLE SILLY NOTION OF OCCUPATION HAS TO BE TURNED AROUND AND STOOD ON ITS HEAD.
  • 16:05 ISRAEL IS NOT THE OCCUPIER.
  • 16:08 IN ALL FAIRNESS, I INTERVIEW PEOPLE OF ALL SIDES IN QUESTIONS.
  • 16:13 IF I TALK TO AN AVERAGE MEMBER OF THE ISRAELI PARLIAMENT, THE KNESSET,
  • 16:19 I THINK HE WOULD PROBABLY SAY, LOOK, WE WERE HERE A LONG TIME AGO.
  • 16:24 PALESTINIANS ARE VARIOUS ARABS FROM VARIOUS STATES. WE MEAN THEM NO HARM.
  • 16:28 WE'VE BROUGHT THE 20TH CENTURY TO THEM AND SO FORTH,
  • 16:32 BUT THEY JUST WON'T COOPERATE AND WON'T LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY
  • 16:36 AND WE DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY TO TURN.
  • 16:38 THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT VIEW OF HISTORY.
  • 16:41 ASK THE ISRAELIS YOU TALK TO, WHEN DID THEY COME TO PALESTINE. WHEN?
  • 16:46 THOSE WHO WERE ORIGINALLY PALESTINIANS ARE A MINORITY WITHIN ISRAEL.
  • 16:50 MOST OF THEM CAME FROM BROOKLYN, FROM MOSCOW, FROM--
  • 16:54 THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAME WITH THEIR DIFFERENT CULTURES AND LANGUAGES AND SO ON
  • 16:59 AND RELIGION BECAME TRANSFORMED INTO A POLITICAL INSTRUMENT IN ORDER TO TAKE OVER A LAND
  • 17:05 IN WHICH THERE WERE PEOPLE WHO'VE BEEN LIVING CONTINUOUSLY FOR CENTURIES.
  • 17:10 WE'VE BEEN HERE FOR CENTURIES.
  • 17:12 WE DIDN'T EMERGE ONLY IN RESPONSE TO THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
  • 17:18 ASHRAWI SAYS THAT WE, MEANING THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE,
  • 17:22 DIDN'T JUST COME ABOUT IN RESPONSE TO THE CREATION TO THE STATE OF ISRAEL - ONLY IN RESPONSE.
  • 17:28 I THINK THERE'S SOME CANDOR THERE THAT I'D LIKE TO SEE FROM MORE OF THE PALESTINIAN SPOKESMEN.
  • 17:34 INDEED, WHAT'S SHE'S ACKNOWLEDGING
  • 17:35 IS THE FACT THAT THERE'S BEEN THIS TREMENDOUS INFLUX OF ARAB POPULATION
  • 17:40 INTO THE REGION SINCE THE CREATION OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
  • 17:44 IN FACT, AS I MENTION EARLIER, THAT INFLUX BEGAN BACK AS EARLY AS 1900
  • 17:51 WHEN THE HIGHER LEVELS OF JEWISH IMMIGRATION BEGAN.
  • 17:56 THAT IS A REALITY. THAT'S A REALITY THAT NEEDS TO BE DEALT WITH.
  • 18:01 ONCE AGAIN WE SEE THAT THE FOLKS THAT WE REFER TO AS PALESTINIANS ARE ACTUALLY COMING FROM 22 ARAB STATES.
  • 18:10 THEY'RE COMING FROM NON-ARAB STATES THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
  • 18:14 THEY'RE MUSLIMS FROM PAKISTAN. THEY'RE MUSLIMS FROM INDONESIA.
  • 18:18 THEY'RE MUSLIMS FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.
  • 18:20 TODAY WE CALL THEM PALESTINIANS AND WE'RE DISCUSSING GIVING THEM RIGHTS TO A NATIONAL HOMELAND.
  • 18:27 IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
  • 18:30 NOW ISRAELI POLITICS IS CHANGING, TOO, AS WE SPEAK.
  • 18:33 THIS WEEK NOT ONLY DID ARAFAT APPOINT NEW CABINET MEMBERS,
  • 18:39 BUT HALF OF THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT WALKED OUT. >>NOT HALF, BUT A MAJOR PORTION.
  • 18:44 NOT ONLY IS THERE CHANGES IN THE PALESTINIAN CABINET AT THIS TIME,
  • 18:47 BUT IN THE ISRAELI KNESSET THERE'S A SEA CHANGE.
  • 18:51 A WHOLE LABOR PARTY WALKED OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT.
  • 18:53 IT'S A MINORITY OF THE GOVERNMENT, BUT STILL THEY LEFT.
  • 18:56 THIS LEAVES A POSSIBILITY OF NEW ELECTIONS COMING UP.
  • 19:01 IT'S QUITE A SHAKE UP. IT BRINGS PERSONALITIES OUT OF THE CLOSET, SO TO SPEAK.
  • 19:06 JUST TO ASK, OF COURSE YOU HAVE SHARON IS IN POWER AND HE WANTS TO REMAIN IN POWER.
  • 19:11 YOU HAVE NETANYAHU BEING SUGGESTED.
  • 19:14 DO YOU HAVE ANY PREFERENCE AMONG THESE GENTLEMEN?
  • 19:15 IT IS THE LESSER OF 2 EVILS, HUH?
  • 19:20 I THINK THEY ALL BELONG TO ONE CAMP.
  • 19:22 THEY MAY HAVE INTERNAL, DOMESTIC DIFFERENCES MOTIVATED BY THEIR OWN AMBITION.
  • 19:27 WHO WANTS TO OUTFLANK WHOM FROM THE RIGHT?
  • 19:30 BUT MOST BELONG TO THE MOST EXTREME ZIONIST TRADITION,
  • 19:33 WHICH IS BASED ON THE NEGATION OF THE OTHER,
  • 19:35 WHICH IS BASED ON THE EXTENSION OF THE MENTALITY OF OCCUPATION
  • 19:39 THINKING THAT YOU CAN REALLY DEFEAT A NATION
  • 19:43 BENT ON GETTING ITS INDEPENDENCE AND FREEDOM AND DIGNITY ON ITS OWN LAND.
  • 19:48 THEY BOTH ADOPT MILITARY MEANS AND VIOLENCE FOR MEANS OF SUBDUING A NATION.
  • 19:54 TO ME, THERE IS DANGER TO ISRAEL AND TO PALESTINE IN HAVING SUCH AN EXTREMIST GOVERNMENT.
  • 20:00 YOU ALSO FORGOT ONE INGREDIENT.
  • 20:02 YOU FORGOT MOFAZ, WHO IS KNOWN FOR HIS RUTHLESSNESS, >>THE NEW DEFENSE MINISTRY,
  • 20:09 SHAUL MOFAZ AND OF COURSE, THEY ARE COURTING LIEBERMAN WHO JUST CAME FROM THE EX-SOVIET UNION,
  • 20:16 WHO CLAIMS THAT GOD GAVE HIM ALL THIS LAND, THEREFORE HE HAS TO CARRY OUT ETHNIC CLEANSING
  • 20:22 AND KICK OUT ALL THE PALESTINIANS AND BOMB EGYPT AND BOMB IRAN.
  • 20:27 SO YOU HAVE THE MOST IRRESPONSIBLE,
  • 20:29 YOU HAVE A VERY DANGEROUS COMBINATION OF EXTREMISM.
  • 20:33 NOT THAT THE LABOR PARTY MADE A LOT OF DIFFERENCE IN THAT CABINET.
  • 20:38 WAIT A MINUTE. BARAK WAS A PRIME MINISTER OF THE LABOR PARTY.
  • 20:42 EVERY AMERICAN WOULD LIKE A CLEAR ANSWER TO WHY,
  • 20:46 WHEN HE OFFERED A VIABLE PALESTINIAN STATE DIDN'T WASHINGTON--
  • 20:51 ARAFAT DIDN'T SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE WANT. WE'LL TAKE IT.
  • 20:54 I'M GLAD YOU RAISED THIS QUESTION BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN SO MANY MYTHS AND DISTORTIONS.
  • 20:59 AMERICAN VIEWERS HAVE ACCEPTED A CERTAIN VERSION THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH REALITY.
  • 21:05 IN CAMP DAVID THERE WAS NO, AS YOU SAY, GENEROUS OFFER.
  • 21:10 THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS. THERE WERE INITIAL IDEAS.
  • 21:13 THERE WAS NOTHING IN WRITING. THERE WERE NO AGREEMENTS.
  • 21:15 THERE WERE JUST IDEAS THAT KEPT CHANGING EVERY DAY SAYING,
  • 21:19 HOW MUCH LAND CAN BARAK TAKE AWAY FROM THE 22 PERCENT,
  • 21:24 WHICH IS THE WEST BANK AND GAZA, TO MAINTAIN MORE SETTLEMENTS.
  • 21:27 HOW MUCH LAND CAN HE TAKE THAT WOULD LEAVE THE PALESTINIAN STATE
  • 21:31 TERRITORIALLY NON-CONTINUANT AND, THEREFORE, NOT VIABLE.
  • 21:35 HE WANTED TO ANNEX AREAS WITHIN JERUSALEM, AROUND JERUSALEM. HE FRAGMENTED THE WEST BANK.
  • 21:41 HE WANTED US TO RELINQUISH THE RIGHT OF RETURN FOR ALL REFUGEES JUST LIKE THAT.
  • 21:46 THEN TO SAY THIS IS THE END OF THE CONFLICT, WE SAID, OK.
  • 21:49 THESE ARE NOT ISSUES ON WHICH WE CAN COME TO AN AGREEMENT.
  • 21:54 THESE ARE IDEAS THAT NEED FURTHER DEVELOPMENT.
  • 21:57 THEY WILL NOT FORM A SOLUTION BECAUSE THE ESSENTIAL INGREDIENT OF JUSTICE IS MISSING.
  • 22:03 LET'S EXPLORE THEM FURTHER. THERE WAS NO REJECTION AND THERE WAS NO OFFER.
  • 22:10 THE FUNDAMENTAL POINT THAT DR. LEVITT MAKES HERE,
  • 22:13 NUMBER ONE, IT MUST BE STATED THERE WAS AN OFFER MADE.
  • 22:17 IT MUST BE STATED THAT ARAFAT DID, IN FACT, WALK AWAY.
  • 22:21 HE WOULD NOT SIGN AN ACCORD AND HE WOULD NOT SIGN AN AGREEMENT.
  • 22:24 HE HAS A VESTED INTEREST IN REVOLUTION, BUT PERHAPS NOT AS MUCH IN PEACE.
  • 22:30 HE WALKED AWAY.
  • 22:35 ASHRAWI SAYS THAT DURING THE BARAK ADMINISTRATION AND DURING THOSE NEGOTIATIONS
  • 22:40 THERE WAS NO REJECTION OF A PEACE PLAN.
  • 22:45 SHE SUGGESTS THERE WAS NO PEACE PLAN AT ALL,
  • 22:48 THAT THERE WAS NOTHING REALLY CONCRETE PUT ON THE TABLE.
  • 22:51 SO THERE WAS NOTHING TO REJECT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
  • 22:53 AS I UNDERSTAND IT, SHE WAS NOT A PART OF THOSE NEGOTIATIONS.
  • 22:57 SHE WAS NOT A PART OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITIES NEGOTIATING TEAM.
  • 23:01 SO HER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING WOULD BE BASED ON THE SAME KIND OF FACTS
  • 23:06 THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO ALL OF US PEOPLE WHO READ NEWSPAPERS AND SO FORTH.
  • 23:10 PEOPLE WHO DO READ NEWSPAPERS AND WHO ARE INFORMED ABOUT THOSE NEGOTIATIONS
  • 23:16 UNDERSTAND THAT THERE WERE INDEED VERY, VERY CONCRETE PROPOSALS,
  • 23:21 UNBELIEVABLE CONCESSIONS THAT WERE MADE BY ISRAELIS, BY THE ISRAELI LEADERSHIP.
  • 23:27 IN FACT, THE ISRAELI POPULATION WAS STUNNED THAT EVERYTHING WAS PUT ON THE TABLE,
  • 23:33 INCLUDING JERUSALEM, WAS PUT ON THE TABLE.
  • 23:36 THE TEMPLE MOUNT WAS PUT ON THE TABLE.
  • 23:40 THAT IS INDEED WHY BARAK WAS ULTIMATELY REJECTED BECAUSE THIS PEACE PLAN FAILED.
  • 23:45 THE ISRAELI POPULATION LOOKED AT THAT AND SAID THERE IS NO WAY WE COULD EVERY MAKE THESE FOLKS,
  • 23:51 THE PALESTINIANS, HAPPY IF THEY REJECTED THESE KINDS OF CONCESSIONS.
  • 23:58 THAT'S THE LONG AND SHORT OF IT.
  • 24:01 WE GAVE DR. ASHRAWI AN OPEN MIC AS THEY CALL IT IN THE BUSINESS.
  • 24:05 SHE WAS ALLOWED TO TALK AT LENGTH AS SHE PLEASED.
  • 24:08 WE DIDN'T TIME IT OR SAY IT WAS A 15 MINUTE INTERVIEW.
  • 24:11 WE JUST LET HER GO AHEAD AND TELL US WHAT SHE WANTED TO TELL US.
  • 24:15 WE THEN TOOK THE TAPE TO OUR EXPERTS, DR. CANER AND JOSEPH FARAH,
  • 24:20 ARAB-CHRISTIANS IN AMERICA AND THEY COMMENTED ON WHAT SHE SAID.
  • 24:23 YOU BE THE JUDGE. I'M IN THE MIDDLE.
  • 24:27 I GOT THE INTERVIEW, TRANSFERRED THE TAPE AND THAT'S ALL.
  • 24:31 THERE WILL COME A TIME IN THE FUTURE WHEN WE WON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THESE THINGS.
  • 24:40 THE KINGDOM TO COME WILL BE IN THE HOLY LAND.
  • 24:43 IT WILL BE IN JERUSALEM AND ALSO IN RAMALLAH.
  • 24:46 THERE WILL BE PEACE AS THE LORD SAYS IN ISAIAH 11:16
  • 25:00 ISAIAH 19 ALSO DESCRIBES THIS HIGHWAY THAT RUNS FROM ARAB NATION TO ARAB NATION,
  • 25:06 RIGHT THROUGH ISRAEL; FROM ASSYRIA, THROUGH ISRAEL,
  • 25:09 TO EGYPT AND BACK, THEREFORE DESCRIBING PEACE.
  • 25:13 WE CROSSED A BORDER, SO VERY TREACHEROUS AND DANGEROUS JUST TO MAKE THIS PROGRAM.
  • 25:18 IN THAT DAY, WE COULD GO ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS, NEVER MIND THE BORDER BETWEEN JERUSALEM AND RAMALLAH.
  • 25:25 AT THAT TIME WE HAVE THE WONDERFUL VERSE,
  • 25:39 LET ME TEACH YOU SOMETHING.
  • 25:41 IN HEBREW, THE WORD SALVATION IS YESHUA. IT'S JESUS' NAME.
  • 25:47 IT'S WHAT HE WAS CALLED IN ISRAEL - YESHUA.
  • 25:52 THE VERSE THAT SAYS MARY CALLED HIS NAME JESUS, BECAUSE HE BROUGHT HIS PEOPLE SALVATION
  • 25:57 DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE UNLESS YOU USE HIS REAL NAME - YESHUA,
  • 26:03 THEN YOU WOULD SAY, MARY CALLED HIS NAME YESHUA, SALVATION,
  • 26:07 BECAUSE HE WILL BRING HIS PEOPLE SALVATION. NOW IT MAKES SENSE.
  • 26:11 WHEN IT SAYS THAT JEHOVAH ALSO IS BECOME MY SALVATION,
  • 26:15 THE VERSE TEACHES THAT JEHOVAH BECOMES JESUS AND COMES TO THE EARTH AND BRINGS YESHUA - SALVATION TO US.
  • 26:25 UNTIL THAT DAY COMES, HOWEVER, RAMALLAH AND JERUSALEM ARE AWFULLY CLOSE TOGETHER.
  • 26:31 AS YOU CAN TELL FROM THE TESTIMONY, THEY'RE STILL QUITE A BIT OF ARGUMENT GOING ON.
  • 26:37 WHEN I WENT TO RAMALLAH I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT WE LEFT OUR HOTEL
  • 26:41 AND IN 15 OR 20 MINUTES WE'RE AT THIS CHECKPOINT THAT LOOKED LIKE THE BERLIN WALL
  • 26:46 FOR ALL THE SOLDIERS AND CONFUSION AND PEOPLE RUNNING HERE AND THERE,
  • 26:52 A BOMBED OUT CAR AND ALL THE REST OF IT.
  • 26:57 I WAS STRUCK BY THE FACT THAT THEY'RE SO CLOSE TOGETHER.
  • 27:00 WHEN YOU THINK OF THESE EVENTS IN RAMALLAH, IT IS RIGHT ON THE BORDER OF JERUSALEM.
  • 27:06 AS YOU DO THAT, SHA'ALU SHALOM YERUSHALAYIM, PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM.
Watch Part 1

Episodes in this series

  1. The View From "Palestine" with Hanan Ashrawi, Part 1
  2. The View From "Palestine" with Hanan Ashrawi, Part 2
  3. Whose Land Is It?

Related Episodes

Zola Levitt Presents
Levitt Letter
Tours
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