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Episode: “Faith in the Unseen”
Even though someone’s faith may be small, it can grow into something spectacular. Columbus, whose name Christopher means “Christ bearer,” heard the Holy Spirit speak and encourage his four voyages to the New World. Historical records reveal his devotion and desire to serve the Lord.
Series: “Faith of our Fathers”
The Old Testament provides many examples of individuals whose faithful lives contributed to the building up of national Israel. Their actions inspired a future generation of dedicated people to begin carving out a modern yet Godly nation in the New World. In this series, Dr. Jeffrey Seif focuses on these people of faith. In addition, Christian historian David Barton presents original source documents, chronicling many of America’s Founding Fathers’ beliefs and efforts to anchor this nation to the moorings of belief in the God of Israel.

Caption transcript for Faith of our Fathers: “Faith in the Unseen” (3/8)

  • 00:03 David Hart: Welcome to "Our Jewish Roots."
  • 00:09 The Word of God has given us examples of faith that have
  • 00:12 shaped virtually every aspect of the believer's life today.
  • 00:17 Where would we be without the examples of Noah, Abraham, and
  • 00:22 Isaac, David, and ultimately that of Yeshua, Jesus?
  • 00:28 Faith is woven into the fabric of America as well,
  • 00:32 from the Pilgrims to John Adams to Patrick Henry
  • 00:36 and George Washington.
  • 00:38 God's providential hand remained highly esteemed
  • 00:42 and honored above all.
  • 00:44 Faith unshakeable, faith unstoppable,
  • 00:47 "Faith of Our Fathers."
  • 00:53 David: We are so glad you've joined us today.
  • 00:55 I am David Hart.
  • 00:56 Kirsten Hart: I'm Kirsten Hart.
  • 00:57 Jeffrey Seif: I am Jeffrey Seif.
  • 01:00 Hey, let's talk about faith, that assurance of things hoped
  • 01:04 for, that looking over the horizon.
  • 01:06 Isn't that important?
  • 01:07 Kirsten: It is, and it's hard sometimes though 'cause we don't
  • 01:12 know what lies ahead but that's what God is calling us
  • 01:14 to have faith in, that he is guiding us to the unseen.
  • 01:18 David: And peace about it.
  • 01:19 Jeffrey: Yes, you know, that walk, step by step.
  • 01:22 You know, Abraham did it.
  • 01:24 Different people do it different days, different ways.
  • 01:27 David: If you have your Bible, open it to Genesis 11.
  • 01:29 It is about Abraham and his faith.
  • 01:32 Dr. Seif teaches about it right now.
  • 01:33 Let's go there.
  • 01:35 ♪♪♪
  • 01:45 Jeffrey: Well, there you go, and here it is.
  • 01:51 Can you see that?
  • 01:53 Probably not.
  • 01:55 God does. At least, he says he does.
  • 01:58 This is a mustard seed, and you might recall in the Matthean
  • 02:02 Gospel, Matthew 13 and verses 31 and 2, Jesus is on record
  • 02:07 likening the kingdom of God to a little mustard seed.
  • 02:12 Starts off as something not very much but then it grows into
  • 02:15 something rather substantial.
  • 02:19 And so it is with faith.
  • 02:22 People talk about a seed of faith: just a little bit can
  • 02:27 make a big difference.
  • 02:31 And we see that going back to the beginning of the Bible and
  • 02:34 we see it at the end, faith at work in the Word, and then
  • 02:38 we're gonna see faith at work in the world as well
  • 02:41 for people to take the Word and they live it out.
  • 02:45 I wanna begin in the book of beginnings, the book Bereshit in
  • 02:48 Hebrew, which is Genesis, and in chapter 11 there's a story here
  • 02:52 of a man who takes those baby mustard seed steps.
  • 02:58 We're told in chapter 11, verse 31, there was a man, Abram,
  • 03:04 Avram, who goes on a journey.
  • 03:06 He leaves with his--some of his family members.
  • 03:09 He leaves Ur of Chaldee, which would be modern Kuwait, and he
  • 03:14 goes on a journey along the Fertile Crescent.
  • 03:17 He's driven by an impulse that today we call faith.
  • 03:21 He didn't know where he was going, and the reason why I say
  • 03:23 he didn't know where he was going is because when you get to
  • 03:25 Hebrews chapter 11, therein in verse 8, the author says
  • 03:28 he didn't know where he was going but he knew
  • 03:31 who he was following.
  • 03:34 There is this pressing against uncertainty.
  • 03:38 People that walk by faith don't necessarily have a clear vision
  • 03:41 where they're going, but they have some sense of who they're
  • 03:45 following, which is why, by the way, I liken this
  • 03:49 to sheep following a shepherd.
  • 03:51 Sheep aren't known for great vision.
  • 03:53 They can just get a blurry view of the shepherd, and the
  • 03:56 shepherd knows where he's going.
  • 03:58 And so it is with us sometimes.
  • 03:59 When we think of our own lives, we don't know where we're going
  • 04:02 but we follow that Shepherd into the future.
  • 04:05 Well, here, we're told that Terah took Abram his son, and
  • 04:09 Lot, and they went on a journey from Ur of Chaldee into Syria,
  • 04:15 and there, they hunkered down for a season until
  • 04:17 such time they were prompted to go further.
  • 04:20 Some of them went further into Eretz Kna'an,
  • 04:23 the land of Canaan.
  • 04:24 But it's from there where Abram hears, "Listen,
  • 04:29 that's not the homeland.
  • 04:31 You're almost there, but you gotta go that extra step,"
  • 04:37 and he does, and the verses are very famous,
  • 04:40 I trust it'll be familiar to you.
  • 04:42 In the 12th chapter, verse 1:
  • 04:44 [speaking in Hebrew] Go, go.
  • 04:46 "Then the Lord said to Abram, 'Get going from your land, and
  • 04:52 from your relatives, and from your father's house,
  • 04:54 to the land that I will show you.
  • 04:57 My heart's desire is to make you a great nation, to bless you, to
  • 05:02 make your name great so you will be a blessing."
  • 05:06 And people have been going ever since.
  • 05:11 And I mention that because we find this at
  • 05:14 the beginning of the Bible, and we find this
  • 05:17 at the beginning of America as well.
  • 05:21 People did embark on a journey that's wrought with perils,
  • 05:25 but possibilities as well.
  • 05:28 You have to take the risk.
  • 05:30 You have to be willing to throw the dice
  • 05:31 and do it, and they did.
  • 05:33 But it wasn't just luck, it wasn't just happenstance.
  • 05:37 It was providence.
  • 05:39 And we see that in the writing of the fathers of
  • 05:42 our culture, that they were looking to the Lord
  • 05:44 to guide them into the future.
  • 05:47 We see it not just with Abram, we see it elsewhere
  • 05:50 in the Bible as well.
  • 05:52 You can recall the story of Jacob, how he leaves.
  • 05:56 Jacob lived under the tutelage of his mother,
  • 05:59 principally, but then it was time to go.
  • 06:02 Things deteriorated with his brother Esau and he goes to
  • 06:05 Syria and you might recall that he has a wrestling match that,
  • 06:11 you know, he's alone at night and the musings of
  • 06:13 his head and he gets a vision that God promises
  • 06:16 that he's gonna be with him.
  • 06:18 Similarly, when he returned from Syria with his family now, he
  • 06:25 will have these stirrings and these wrestlings and so forth.
  • 06:29 It just is what it is.
  • 06:30 Walking by faith isn't easy.
  • 06:33 It takes faith to walk by faith.
  • 06:35 I mean, that goes without saying, but it's much easier
  • 06:38 to say it than it is to do it.
  • 06:41 If you can think for a moment of those who first came here to
  • 06:46 this New World, I think of Colón, as he was known.
  • 06:50 We know him as Columbus, particularly, and they were
  • 06:53 ready to mutiny, you know, that they had gone out, the winds
  • 06:56 died, they hadn't found land, and it looked like all was lost,
  • 07:01 but there's that voice pressing, going, "No, no,
  • 07:04 I know it's out there."
  • 07:06 And thank God he didn't turn back.
  • 07:08 I think of those that made the passage from the
  • 07:12 Old World to the New World.
  • 07:14 You know that in Europe believers that weren't
  • 07:18 denominational Christians particularly had problems
  • 07:21 with the state because they didn't come under
  • 07:23 state control of religion.
  • 07:25 They wanted differentiation from that.
  • 07:27 The Puritans thought that the English church was too much
  • 07:31 full of the British crown and not full enough of
  • 07:35 biblical faith and virtue.
  • 07:37 They wanted to distinguish themselves from that and it
  • 07:40 caused tensions with the powers that be in that culture.
  • 07:43 And they were doggedly determined, however, and people
  • 07:46 came over to a new world.
  • 07:48 They wanted to escape the difficulties that were imposed
  • 07:51 upon them, but in coming here, then, they confronted the
  • 07:54 difficulties associated with carving out a new world
  • 07:58 and they met it with faith, and that's the principal
  • 08:03 point that I wanna talk to you about here.
  • 08:05 You know, when I think of the faith of our fathers, you've
  • 08:09 heard me to say previous to this particular program in this
  • 08:12 particular series, that for me, faith is less about creeds and
  • 08:15 deeds as much as it is an impulse, something interior
  • 08:19 to the person that wants to believe God.
  • 08:21 It doesn't translate, specifically, to my way of
  • 08:24 thinking and to various doctrinal statements and I don't
  • 08:27 wanna minimize the importance of theology, but there's that raw
  • 08:30 faith, there's that daring to believe, there's looking to the
  • 08:33 Lord, there is looking through the darkness with piercing eyes,
  • 08:38 believing that even though there are difficulties at present,
  • 08:41 there's hope for a future.
  • 08:43 Speaking of making a voyage, there's an old Dutch proverb
  • 08:46 that God doesn't promise us an easy voyage, but
  • 08:48 he promises a safe harbor.
  • 08:51 Sometimes, there's some high winds and high seas and we have
  • 08:54 to deal with it on the way to that harbor, and I know that
  • 08:57 those who forged out a nation here in early
  • 09:01 America had to deal with that.
  • 09:02 Those that forged out an early church had to deal with that.
  • 09:05 Those that forged out their way in the biblical pages had
  • 09:08 to deal with it as well, and so do we.
  • 09:11 But with our faith, little as it is, we sow it,
  • 09:16 we believe God, and then we grow into something bigger
  • 09:20 by virtue of our so doing.
  • 09:26 David: Our resources this week: two books by Christian
  • 09:29 historian David Barton.
  • 09:31 First, "America's Godly Heritage."
  • 09:33 This book details what the founding fathers intended
  • 09:36 for America and what can be done to return to its
  • 09:39 original guiding philosophy.
  • 09:41 Or "The Bulletproof George Washington."
  • 09:44 In this riveting account of God's providence and protection
  • 09:47 of the young soldier who later
  • 09:48 became our first president.
  • 09:51 Contact us for more information.
  • 09:56 David: Join us right now for additional content that
  • 09:58 is only available on our social media sites:
  • 10:01 Facebook, YouTube, and Twitter.
  • 10:04 Visit our website, levitt.com, for the current and past
  • 10:06 programs, the television schedule, tour information, and
  • 10:11 our free monthly newsletter, which is full of insightful
  • 10:14 articles and news commentary.
  • 10:16 View it online, or we can ship it directly
  • 10:18 to your mailbox every month.
  • 10:20 Also on our website is the online store.
  • 10:23 There, you can order this week's resource or you can always
  • 10:25 give us a call at 1-800-WONDERS.
  • 10:30 Your donations to "Our Jewish Roots" help us to support these
  • 10:34 organizations as they bless Israel.
  • 10:37 Please remember we depend on tax-deductible donations
  • 10:40 from viewers like you.
  • 10:42 David: For many, a trip to the Holy Land
  • 10:44 is the dream of a lifetime.
  • 10:48 The Bible truly comes alive as you see the sites where so many
  • 10:52 biblical events happened.
  • 10:55 Come on a Zola Tour to see Israel and Petra.
  • 11:00 See the land of the Bible for yourself.
  • 11:05 Contact us to reserve your dream of a lifetime.
  • 11:13 David: One of the places we take you on our tour, which is
  • 11:15 actually--we say one of our favorite spots, we--
  • 11:18 everywhere we go is our favorite spot.
  • 11:20 But we take you to the Dead Sea, where you get
  • 11:22 in it and experience it.
  • 11:25 I know you love the mud there.
  • 11:26 Kirsten: Ah, we get there and one of my first things is I need
  • 11:31 to get right down to the water and I jump in.
  • 11:33 They have these pools of Dead Sea mud and I plaster
  • 11:36 it everywhere, probably just like you do.
  • 11:38 David: Have you done it?
  • 11:40 Jeffrey: Once.
  • 11:41 Kirsten: Really?
  • 11:42 Do you mud up? Do you get all mud?
  • 11:44 Jeffrey: Once, I've been there dozens and dozens of times.
  • 11:48 Once, that's one of those things you gotta do once.
  • 11:51 Kirsten: Oh, see, and I love it, I do it every time.
  • 11:53 And I have to admit, yes, I drop a few shekel on the
  • 11:59 Dead Sea products 'cause I love it.
  • 12:01 I bring it home and it's what I use during the rest of the year.
  • 12:05 Jeffrey: You know, it's great to get away, to vacate actually,
  • 12:07 and people go on a vacation.
  • 12:09 It comes from the word "to vacate."
  • 12:11 It means to get away from the workaday and get inspired.
  • 12:15 That's doubly true when you vacate to Israel.
  • 12:18 And if you can't get there, you know, we love to bring it all to
  • 12:21 you and I wanna ask you please, help us to do it.
  • 12:26 We're in the Holy Land.
  • 12:27 We make TV there.
  • 12:29 We bring you guests from there.
  • 12:31 We take you to places there.
  • 12:33 And I hope that you would think that--you know,
  • 12:35 there's 168 hours in a week.
  • 12:37 When you watch this program, you're vacating.
  • 12:40 We're looking to take you away from your everyday
  • 12:42 workaday world and get you into the biblical world.
  • 12:45 If you find value in that, inasmuch as Kirsten drops a few
  • 12:50 dollars on Dead Sea products, drop some dollars to help us get
  • 12:54 this product to market, please.
  • 12:56 Kirsten: Your contributions also help us produce these
  • 12:59 dramatic reenactments.
  • 13:01 Now let's go back in time to 1776 to learn more about the
  • 13:05 divinely inspired journey of Columbus.
  • 13:10 ♪♪♪
  • 13:19 clergyman: Good day, Betsy.
  • 13:21 Betsy Ross: Good day, sir.
  • 13:24 I'm humbled all the more when you remind me of those who've
  • 13:27 gone before us: the Pilgrims you mentioned, a gritty lot, risking
  • 13:33 hazard or fortune as they did to come to a foreign land.
  • 13:36 clergyman: But they were only following the lofty efforts of
  • 13:39 others who preceded them, mostly for godly reason.
  • 13:43 Betsy: Others, sir?
  • 13:46 clergyman: The discovery of a new world in the year 1492
  • 13:50 of our Lord was, I believe, a benchmark on behalf
  • 13:53 of our Christian faith.
  • 13:56 Hear now the words of Mr. Christopher Columbus.
  • 14:01 He may have not landed on our shores, but he considered his
  • 14:06 journey to be divinely inspired.
  • 14:12 "I prayed to the most merciful Lord about my heart's great
  • 14:16 desire, and he gave me the spirit and the
  • 14:19 intelligence for the task.
  • 14:21 It was the Lord who put into my mind the fact that it would be
  • 14:25 possible to sail to the Indies.
  • 14:28 There is no question that the inspiration was from the Holy
  • 14:32 Spirit, a strong and clear testimony from the books of the
  • 14:36 Old Testament, from the Gospels, and from the Epistles,
  • 14:40 encouraging me continually to press forward."
  • 14:46 Betsy: I had no idea.
  • 14:47 His journey was actually driven by godly pursuit?
  • 14:51 clergyman: Yes, Betsy.
  • 14:53 And he faced great opposition, even risking his longstanding
  • 14:56 reputation to fulfill the Lord's calling.
  • 15:00 Columbus continues: "Since things generally came to
  • 15:04 pass that were predicted by our Savior Jesus Christ,
  • 15:08 we should also believe that this particular
  • 15:11 prophecy will come to pass.
  • 15:14 I offer the Gospel text, Matthew 24:25, in which Jesus said that
  • 15:19 all things would pass away, but not his marvelous Word.
  • 15:24 Jesus affirmed that it was necessary that all things be
  • 15:28 fulfilled that were prophesied by himself and by the prophets."
  • 15:35 Betsy: By "the prophets," Mr. Columbus was referring to--?
  • 15:39 clergyman: Isaiah, yes, he refers to Isaiah
  • 15:42 specifically...here, yes, here.
  • 15:47 "Isaiah goes into great detail in describing future events and
  • 15:52 in calling all people to our holy faith.
  • 15:56 For the execution of our journey, I did not make use of
  • 15:59 intelligence, mathematics, or maps.
  • 16:03 It is simply the fulfillment of what Isaiah had prophesied."
  • 16:08 Betsy: Sir, I cannot say in all honesty that my motives are
  • 16:13 as pure or as lofty as were those of Mr. Columbus.
  • 16:17 clergyman: Betsy, none of us can say with certainty
  • 16:22 what tomorrow brings.
  • 16:24 It is our faith that sustains.
  • 16:27 I continue.
  • 16:29 "No one should fear to undertake any task in the
  • 16:33 name of our Savior, if it is just and if the
  • 16:37 intention is purely for his holy service.
  • 16:40 The working out of all things has been assigned
  • 16:43 to each person by our Lord."
  • 16:49 Betsy, just like Columbus, we have no mathematics or maps to
  • 16:55 guide us through this journey.
  • 16:58 All we have are needles and thread, journals and Scripture.
  • 17:06 May our intentions remain pure and for his holy service.
  • 17:16 Jeffrey: We're used to thinking of Christopher Columbus
  • 17:18 as a sea captain without paying attention to the
  • 17:20 captain of his soul.
  • 17:23 He had an interior world that was informed
  • 17:25 by biblical worldview.
  • 17:27 We know it 'cause he wrote it.
  • 17:29 David Barton brings it to us.
  • 17:32 Goodness gracious, Columbus had a rich faith, and David Barton
  • 17:37 brings it out so brilliantly.
  • 17:39 Let's go to him now.
  • 17:42 Jeffrey: David, my Jewish friends refer to him as Colón,
  • 17:45 a.k.a. Columbus, in part because we wanna claim him on our side.
  • 17:50 There's an argument that he and others on the voyage
  • 17:53 were of Jewish extract.
  • 17:55 That might be true, but he definitely had a Judeo-Christian
  • 17:59 worldview, underline Christian, correct?
  • 18:01 David Barton: It's interesting, people today know
  • 18:03 very little about Columbus except they think he's a bad
  • 18:05 guy, and so we've seen eight to ten years now of
  • 18:08 tearing Columbus statues down.
  • 18:09 It's significant that there were more than 600 statues
  • 18:13 erected to Columbus over the last 500 years.
  • 18:16 I don't know of any individual in the world
  • 18:17 who has so many statues erected.
  • 18:19 So there was a period of time when we believed he's a
  • 18:21 really good guy; today we think he's a terrible guy.
  • 18:25 But I have not talked to a single person today who
  • 18:27 knows the history of Columbus, they just know he's
  • 18:29 a bad guy 'cause that's what they've been told.
  • 18:31 Interesting thing about Columbus is he made four voyages and
  • 18:34 those four voyages involved thousands of people.
  • 18:38 They kept records, there were doctors, there were priests,
  • 18:41 there were colonists, there were all sorts of people.
  • 18:43 They wrote letters back, they had memoirs, they have diaries,
  • 18:47 they have journals.
  • 18:48 There's lots of original source material to know exactly what
  • 18:51 kind of a person Columbus was.
  • 18:53 We don't study that today.
  • 18:54 But if you go back to the early 1800s, there's a literary figure
  • 18:58 named Washington Irving, done a lot of literary writing, a lot
  • 19:02 of kids study him in AP Literature in school.
  • 19:05 He was made an ambassador to Spain.
  • 19:08 When he went to Spain, while he was there as a US ambassador, he
  • 19:10 spent a lot of time in the libraries in Spain studying the
  • 19:13 original materials of Columbus.
  • 19:15 He did this three-volume set in 1828.
  • 19:18 It's one of the most extensive writings ever done on Columbus,
  • 19:21 primary source documents.
  • 19:23 But it's like this.
  • 19:24 This is Columbus's writings from his own son, so these are
  • 19:28 Columbus's papers handed down to his son.
  • 19:30 This is actually part of Columbus's own--he did this
  • 19:35 between his third and fourth voyage and it was done in his
  • 19:38 own hand in Latin and it's been translated into English.
  • 19:43 But there are so many records to know exactly
  • 19:44 what this guy was about.
  • 19:46 Jeffrey: What's the title of that one?
  • 19:47 David: This is called, "Christopher Columbus's
  • 19:49 Book of Prophecies."
  • 19:51 Jeffrey: That's incredible to even think: book of prophecies,
  • 19:56 Christopher Columbus.
  • 19:58 David: Here's the deal with Columbus.
  • 19:59 His name means "Christ bearer," and he took that very literally.
  • 20:03 He believed that Christ had commissioned him to take the
  • 20:06 gospel to the lands.
  • 20:07 As he was reading through the Scriptures--and this actually
  • 20:10 documents all the Scriptures he was reading.
  • 20:12 He said he went through the entire Bible and the Holy Spirit
  • 20:14 spoke to him in verse after verse and he documented it.
  • 20:17 So--I'm not a Latin reader.
  • 20:19 Jeffrey: He said the Holy Spirit spoke to him.
  • 20:22 That's his language, not yours.
  • 20:23 David: That's his language,
  • 20:25 and I'm not a Latin--but I can tell that says Ezekiel and
  • 20:28 that's Ezekiel chapter 27, and Ezekiel chapter 28, and Ezekiel
  • 20:32 chapter--and what he does is he writes the verses in here the
  • 20:35 Holy Spirit jumped out to him, and there's verses like in
  • 20:38 Isaiah that talks about the light needs to go to
  • 20:40 the isles of the sea, he said, "The isles of the sea.
  • 20:42 God's showing me people need the gospel out there."
  • 20:45 And so he literally was a Christ-bearing gospel.
  • 20:49 Now people say, "Oh, but he's enslaved, he's genocide,
  • 20:52 he's the first sex trafficker," et cetera.
  • 20:55 No, it's interesting that he had conflicts
  • 20:58 with natives, eventually.
  • 20:59 On his first voyage, he discovered the Taíno tribe
  • 21:02 and they had great relations, they were good friends.
  • 21:04 And the Taíno said, "Oh, by the way, you may like us, but
  • 21:07 there's another tribe called the Canibs or the Caribs,"
  • 21:10 and Canibs is where we get the word "cannibal,"
  • 21:12 Carib's where we get the word "Caribbean."
  • 21:14 They said, "they're our enemies, they eat us."
  • 21:16 And it's like Columbus says, "Nah, no, no, this is 1492.
  • 21:19 We're way too civilized to have cannibals.
  • 21:20 They wouldn't do that."
  • 21:22 So he left on his first journey.
  • 21:23 Some of his guys stayed behind, and while he was gone they were
  • 21:25 attacked by the Canibs.
  • 21:27 They were killed and they were eaten.
  • 21:30 He got back, he found out that these guys are real, and so he
  • 21:33 goes looking for the Canibs, and so he goes to war against those
  • 21:37 people 'cause they're killing his friends, they're killing
  • 21:39 other native tribes.
  • 21:40 And he kind of virtually exterminates the cannibals.
  • 21:43 And today we call that a genocide.
  • 21:46 Well, that's kind of like us taking out ISIS.
  • 21:48 Nobody calls that a genocide.
  • 21:49 I mean, if you're that barbaric a people.
  • 21:51 So he saved native tribes, he really brought some civilization
  • 21:56 there, had great relations throughout his time with them.
  • 21:59 And we just don't hear that story today.
  • 22:01 Jeffrey: No, in fact, there's a sidebar to it.
  • 22:03 When he's given a land grant from the Crown for Jamaica, the
  • 22:08 charter for it was specific.
  • 22:10 There's no litmus test for race or creed for those to be part of
  • 22:14 the New World in Jamaica.
  • 22:17 He was making room for Jewish people that were fleeing
  • 22:20 and he was very open like that, and people tell a
  • 22:23 different story about him.
  • 22:25 David: Well, it's interesting, he lived at a
  • 22:26 time when the Crusades were still pretty active,
  • 22:29 and I see a lot of American history textbooks,
  • 22:32 they talk about the Christian crusades, 15 to 17,
  • 22:34 however many they count.
  • 22:36 Nobody talks about the Muslim crusades,
  • 22:38 548 on the Muslim side.
  • 22:40 And Columbus had, as a young man, been involved in some of
  • 22:43 those attacks where the Muslims were attacking Christians and
  • 22:46 trying to subdue Christians, and they went through the
  • 22:48 Holy Land, taking so much of the Holy Land.
  • 22:51 And so he--people today say, "Oh, he was all
  • 22:53 into greed and gold."
  • 22:55 Well, he actually told the king and queen, he said, "Any profits
  • 22:58 I have in this thing, I want to go to the conquest of Jerusalem
  • 23:01 because," he said, "I've talked to the--all the theologians and
  • 23:05 I've read their works and they say Jesus is gonna be
  • 23:08 back in 155 years."
  • 23:09 Now, who knows why that, but that's what he says.
  • 23:12 And he says, "We need to get the Holy Land back in
  • 23:14 the hands of God's people, Jews and Christians,
  • 23:16 before the return of Christ."
  • 23:18 So he's motivated to see the Holy Land back in the
  • 23:21 hands of biblical people.
  • 23:23 Jeffrey: That's the ethos of his own culture, certainly in
  • 23:25 the Iberian Peninsula.
  • 23:27 They had just reconquered it.
  • 23:29 Grenada had fallen and then opens up the New World.
  • 23:32 There is this wanting to take it all back.
  • 23:34 David: And it's that sense of Jesus is gonna return.
  • 23:37 He doesn't need to return to a place of conflict where the
  • 23:39 Muslims are gonna try to kill Jews and Christians.
  • 23:42 He needs to come back to a safe place.
  • 23:44 And whatever we think about his thinking on that, his
  • 23:48 heart was really good on it.
  • 23:49 He wanted to do something good for the Lord.
  • 23:52 Jeffrey: Well, you know, in that regard, Columbus and the
  • 23:55 people that watch our program have in common.
  • 23:57 Both are interested in Israel, in the Jewish roots, the Holy
  • 24:03 Land, and you do such a marvelous job of bringing
  • 24:07 us back to the holy inspiration behind the
  • 24:09 founders of our own culture.
  • 24:12 David: And it is very clear when you read the originals that
  • 24:14 it was a biblical and a Judeo-Christian inspiration.
  • 24:18 And as you point out, the heritage of Columbus seems
  • 24:21 to be Jewish as well.
  • 24:22 And so you have a Jewish- Christian connection there.
  • 24:25 Jeffrey: Yeah, I'm just struck by it all.
  • 24:27 Now you have one more book you didn't mention there.
  • 24:29 David: Well, this is a program.
  • 24:31 It's P.T. Barnum.
  • 24:32 Barnum and Bailey Circus, the famous circus, and as part of
  • 24:35 the circus, they had acts reenacting what Columbus did.
  • 24:40 And so Columbus was such a hero to previous generations when we
  • 24:43 actually read his writings and knew who he was.
  • 24:45 But this is for all the kids that come to the circus to learn
  • 24:48 about Columbus, what a great guy he is, and what a contrast today
  • 24:51 when we're tearing down the statues, but this just shows the
  • 24:55 pop culture of that day: Columbus really was a hero.
  • 24:58 Jeffrey: You know, it's fascinating that we're propping
  • 25:03 him up in one generation, tearing him down in another.
  • 25:07 Tragic, we just lose sight of the faith of our fathers.
  • 25:10 We don't even know what the origins are all about.
  • 25:12 Last word's yours.
  • 25:14 David: Most important thing is truth.
  • 25:15 We hear a lot of narratives today.
  • 25:17 Here's truth, here's eyewitness accounts,
  • 25:19 here's accounts of his own handwriting.
  • 25:21 Here's accounts of previous generations.
  • 25:23 Knowing the truth is the most important thing about Columbus.
  • 25:26 Jeffrey: Yes, and the truth will set us free.
  • 25:28 We're out of time, but we have you a lot more.
  • 25:30 Looking forward to this series as it unfolds, thank you, David.
  • 25:34 David: Thanks, Jeff.
  • 25:36 David Hart: It really is amazing the written proof that
  • 25:38 David Barton has brought to this series.
  • 25:41 I know there's a lot more that he brings in the next programs,
  • 25:44 but wow, pretty amazing.
  • 25:46 Jeffrey: I was just blown away.
  • 25:48 Kirsten: I was gonna say, you can't disprove proof.
  • 25:51 It's literal writings that he has and it's just a--I'm so glad
  • 25:55 that he's been our guest 'cause it's amazing what he's literally
  • 25:58 brought to the table.
  • 25:59 Jeffrey: You know, when I'm not here doing this, you know,
  • 26:01 I serve as a Bible college seminary professor, and in
  • 26:04 academia we talk about primary source data, the
  • 26:08 principal evidence, not the spin on it, just the evidence,
  • 26:12 and it's important to bring it forth, and he does.
  • 26:15 Kirsten: Well, here's my question for you real quick, I
  • 26:17 know we don't have a lot of time right now 'cause the
  • 26:19 interview with David Barton was so wonderful,
  • 26:21 but here's my question.
  • 26:22 We have Columbus, who we've talked about today, and then you
  • 26:25 talked about Abraham, the father of our faith.
  • 26:28 They both went on unknown journeys.
  • 26:30 Is it okay to put them kind of together
  • 26:33 in the same boat, should I say?
  • 26:35 Thank you, that was good.
  • 26:37 Jeffrey: That's very well, very well stated.
  • 26:38 Of course, Abraham went over sand, Columbus went over sea,
  • 26:42 but at the end of the day the points are very true.
  • 26:44 You just walk into an uncertain future and
  • 26:47 believe God and he leads.
  • 26:48 He did it with them, he does it with us, he'll do it with you.
  • 26:51 Kirsten: And we have more to come next week.
  • 26:52 Join us next week.
  • 26:54 More of "Faith of Our Fathers."
  • 26:55 David: We end our program today with a song
  • 26:57 from our founder, Zola Levitt.
  • 26:58 Jeffrey: And a word from the Scripture:
  • 27:00 [speaking in Hebrew]
  • 27:02 David: Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
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Episodes in this series

  1. What is Faith
  2. Faith by Trial
  3. Faith in the Unseen
  4. Faith to Build a Nation Upon
  5. Faith in Our Leaders
  6. The Cost of Faith
  7. The Actions of the Faithful
  8. The Application of Faith

Links from this show

Guest organizations and links