The Jewish roots of Christianity

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Episode: “The Old New Land”
Speaking inside a Crusader structure in Caesarea, Zola continues his historical review of the Crusades. In Zola’s continued interview with Ra’anan Gissin, Sharon’s spokesman says that the Road Map has failed because it is based on specific goals, which the Palestinians have proved unable to accomplish.
Series: “The Crusaders”
Coalition forces, including American soldiers, are commonly referred to as “Crusaders” in Iraq and Afghanistan. Zola Levitt Presents takes a revealing look at the real Crusaders of a thousand years ago, and shows that the present accusation is unfair.

Caption transcript for The Crusaders: “The Old New Land” (2/8)

  • 00:06 IN 1095 POPE URBAN THE SECOND DECREED THAT THE CENTER >>OF THE KNOWN WORLD, JERUSALEM,
  • 00:13 SHOULD BE FREED FROM MUSLIM CONTROL.
  • 00:16 SPURRED BY RELIGIOUS FERVOR, >>WARRIORS MARCHED UNABATED ACROSS >>EUROPE TOWARDS THE HOLY LAND,
  • 00:22 LEAVING DEATH AND DEVASTATION IN THEIR WAKE.
  • 00:25 IN THE END, UPWARDS OF 30,000 >>MUSLIMS AND JEWS WERE MASSACRED >>IN JERUSALEM ALONE.
  • 00:32 THIS WAS CALLED "A HOLY WAR". >>THESE WERE THE CRUSADERS.
  • 00:42 SHALOM, HELLO AGAIN.
  • 00:43 WELCOME BACK TO OUR CRUSADERS SERIES.
  • 00:46 WE'RE TALKING BASICALLY ABOUT THE THREE MAJOR CRUSADES.
  • 00:50 THERE WERE SOMETHING LIKE EIGHT CRUSADES
  • 00:52 AND ONE OF THEM EVEN A CHILDREN'S CRUSADE, VERY, VERY SAD.
  • 00:54 PEOPLE JUST SENT OFF YOUNGSTERS TO THE HOLY LAND TRYING TO WREST >>IT FROM THE MUSLIMS
  • 01:01 AND OF COURSE THEY WERE DECIMATED.
  • 01:03 RATHER LIKE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE >>SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO DIE IN A HOPELESS CAUSE.
  • 01:08 WE'LL ALSO GO BACK TO SENIOR ADVISOR RA'ANAN GISSIN
  • 01:12 WHO ADVISES ARIEL SHARON, THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL.
  • 01:17 AT THIS MOMENT WE'LL GO TO CAESAREA.
  • 01:19 THIS IS WHERE THE CRUSADERS BUILT A MIGHTY CASTLE AND HAD A HEADQUARTERS
  • 01:25 AND WE'RE GOING TO GO INSIDE SOME OF THEIR CONSTRUCTION.
  • 01:28 SO NOW TO THE MEDITERRANEAN COAST OF ISRAEL AND CAESAREA.
  • 01:36 IT IS JUST ABSOLUTELY AMAZING >>TO SEE WHAT THE CRUSADERS BUILT >>HERE IN ISRAEL.
  • 01:41 THIS IS, OF COURSE, CAESAREA AND IT'S ON THE COAST OF THE MEDITERRANEAN
  • 01:46 AND OTHER DWELLINGS HERE BY MORE >>NATIVE PEOPLES WERE SIMPLER,
  • 01:51 WITH PALM ROOFS AND THIS SORT OF THINGS.
  • 01:53 THEY BUILT THESE HEAVY STONE CASTLES
  • 01:55 THE SAME AS THEY BUILT THEM >>IN ENGLAND, FRANCE OR GERMANY.
  • 01:58 THESE KNIGHTS, FROM UP NORTH, >>AS IF THEY HAD TO EXPECT SEVERE WINTERS AND BUILT THEM TO LAST.
  • 02:06 THIS IS GOING TO STAND HERE, I SUPPOSE, UNTIL THE END OF TIME.
  • 02:10 THE TOWN ITSELF HAS A VERY INTERESTING HISTORY TO WESTERNERS EVERYWHERE,
  • 02:17 GENTILE PEOPLE, BECAUSE THE >>FIRST GENTILE OF THE CHURCH AGE >>WAS SAVED HERE AT CAESAREA.
  • 02:22 THIS IS WHERE PETER CAME FROM JOPPA TO VISIT CORNELIUS WHO WAS A ROMAN OFFICER
  • 02:30 AND HIS VERY UNIT IS GIVEN IN ACTS 10:1.
  • 02:34 HE'S OF THE ITALIAN BAND, IT SAYS,
  • 02:36 BUT HE WAS A CONVERT TO JUDAISM AND PETER SPOKE TO HIM ABOUT THE >>MORE EXCELLENT WAY
  • 02:42 AND SO HE CAME TO FAITH IN CHRIST, HE AND IS HOUSEHOLD,
  • 02:46 THE FIRST ROMANS OR WHITE EUROPEANS TO COME TO THE FAITH IN CHRIST.
  • 02:53 THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT PETER'S SERMON
  • 02:54 IS WHEN HE PERCEIVES THAT THESE EUROPEANS ARE HEARING THE GOSPEL >>AND ARE BECOMING SAVED
  • 03:03 AND ARE EXHIBITING THE GIFTS THAT HE SAW AT PENTECOST,
  • 03:11 WELL,THAT VERSE IS USED TO LET >>THE BLACK COME TO CHURCH, >>LET THE HISPANIC COME TO CHURCH,
  • 03:18 GOD FORBID, LET THE JEWS COME CHURCH.
  • 03:20 IT'S FUNNY, BUT IT WAS USED >>THE FIRST TIME HERE AT CAESAREA
  • 03:22 TO LET THE WHITE GENTILES COME TO CHURCH, THE EUROPEANS WHO WERE HERE.
  • 03:29 THE PLACE WENT ON AS A CHRISTIAN CITY. THE BYZANTINES CAME HERE.
  • 03:33 THEY WERE THE CHRISTIANS FROM THE EASTERN EMPIRE FROM CONSTANTINOPLE
  • 03:38 WHICH BECAME ISTANBUL IN TURKEY.
  • 03:40 THEY FOUGHT WITH THE SAMARITANS >>OVER THIS PLACE IN 555 A.D.,
  • 03:46 A TREMENDOUS WAR WITH THE SAMARITANS.
  • 03:49 THEN THE ARABS RODE IN FROM SAUDI ARABIA.
  • 03:52 THEY CAME TO THE HOLY LAND IN 634, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
  • 03:55 CAESAREA WAS DEFENDED PRETTY WELL AND IT TOOK THEM AWHILE TO TAKE IT.
  • 04:00 THE BYZANTINE NAVY, THEY HAD SHIPS OUT IN THE HARBOR PROTECTING THE THING.
  • 04:04 IT TOOK UNTIL 638, BUT THE CITY WAS FINALLY CONQUERED BY MUSLIMS.
  • 04:10 THAT'S WHAT EVIDENTLY SOME 400 OR SO YEARS LATER BROUGHT >>THE CRUSADERS IN THIS DIRECTION.
  • 04:17 THE IDEA THAT MUSLIMS AND JEWS >>WERE IN THE HOLY LAND, BUT SO FEW CHRISTIANS
  • 04:23 AND THEY WANTED TO CAPTURE THE >>PLACE FOR THE CHRISTIANS
  • 04:26 AND THEY ATTACKED HERE AT CAESAREA AT 1101.
  • 04:30 THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST ATTACKS >>IN THE CRUSADES.
  • 04:33 AS SOON AS THEY RODE UP AND KING BALDWIN I AND HIS TROOPS
  • 04:38 FOUND A CUP IN A MOSQUE HERE AND CALLED IT THE HOLY GRAIL.
  • 04:44 THIS A PREPOSTEROUS IDEA THAT IT'S THE CUP THAT JESUS USED
  • 04:49 IN THE LAST SUPPER AT THE PASSOVER TABLE
  • 04:51 WHEN HE SAID THIS MY CUP OF THE NEW TESTAMENT SHED FOR THE MANY >>FOR REMISSION OF SINS.
  • 04:57 IT'S HOW WE ESTABLISH WHAT YOU >>CALL A TOTEM OR AN IDOL OF SOME KIND
  • 05:02 AND OF COURSE THE FINDING OF >>THE HOLY GRAIL AND THE FIGHTING >>OVER IT WENT ON.
  • 05:07 IT WENT BACK TO GENOA ITALY, >>BUT DOWN HERE IN THE HOLY LAND, THE THING WAS FOUND IN A MOSQUE.
  • 05:15 IT WAS EVIDENTLY A MUSLIM GOBLET >>AND THE MUSLIMS WERE STILL STRONG HERE
  • 05:21 AND THE CRUSADERS HAD A VERY LONG SUPPLY LINE
  • 05:23 AND FINALLY SALADIN, THE ARAB >>CONQUEROR TOOK CESAREA IN 1187
  • 05:29 AND THERE CAME ONE OF THESE >>TREMENDOUS MASSACRES WHERE THE >>CHRISTIANS WERE KILLED,
  • 05:34 THE SOLDIERS, THE WOMEN, THE CHILDREN, EVERYBODY WIPED OUT BY THE MUSLIMS BACK THEN.
  • 05:39 THEN IT CHANGES HANDS STILL >>AGAIN, LOUIS IX OF FRANCE CAME.
  • 05:46 HE ASKED TO RESTORE THESE WALLS.
  • 05:48 THEY WERE RESTORED AND THE >>CASTLE REFURBISHED AND DEFENSE >>SET UP IN 1251,
  • 05:55 BUT HE LOST IT TO THE MAMLUKS ABOUT 15 YEARS LATER,
  • 05:57 EGYPTIANS MUSLIM WHO CAME HERE >>AND THE GENERATION AFTER THAT DECLARED THAT CAESAREA,
  • 06:04 THIS GLORIOUS CITY, THE FIRST SITE OF GENTILE SALVATION IN THE CHURCH AGE,
  • 06:11 ROMAN CAPITAL, A DEEP HARBOR, A MAGNIFICENT MODERN, ALMOST >>CULTURAL CENTER HERE IN ISRAEL
  • 06:20 TO BE DESTROYED AND IT WAS DESTROYED AND IT IS DESTROYED UNTIL THIS DAY.
  • 06:36 THUS SAYETH THE LORD GOD, I SHALL GATHER YOU FROM THE PEOPLES
  • 06:41 AND ASSEMBLE YOU OUT OF THE COUNTRIES WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN SCATTERED
  • 06:45 AND I WILL GIVE YOU THE LAND OF ISRAEL.
  • 06:46 THE WILDERNESS AND THE DRY LAND SHALL BE GLAD, THE DESERT SHALL REJOICE AND BLOSSOM AS THE ROSE.
  • 06:54 YOU SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE >>LORD WHEN I BRING YOU INTO THE >>LAND OF ISRAEL.
  • 07:03 WELL, THOSE ARE OUR TOURS AND THEY ALWAYS VISIT CAESAREA.
  • 07:06 THAT'S AN IMPORTANT CITY IN CHRISTIANITY,
  • 07:09 THE FIRST GENTILE OF THE CHURCH >>AGE WAS SAVED AT CAESAREA,
  • 07:13 IN ACTS 10 YOU READ ABOUT CORNELIUS, A ROMAN OFFICER
  • 07:15 AND PETER WHO VISITED HIM AND BROUGHT HIM AND HIS FAMILY AND FRIENDS TO THE LORD.
  • 07:20 IT'S A MODERN CITY SURROUNDED >>WITH ANCIENT RUINS WHICH IS TRUE >>OF ALL ISRAEL,
  • 07:26 BEAUTIFUL 21ST CENTURY NATION >>WITH 4000 - 5000 YEAR OLD RUINS >>IN ALL DIRECTIONS.
  • 07:34 WELL, WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK AND TALK WITH RA'ANAN GISSIN WHO WE TALKED TO LAST WEEK.
  • 07:38 HE IS ADVISOR TO ARIEL SHARON AND HE IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS PHENOMENON
  • 07:46 OF MODERN DEMOCRACY WITH AN ANCIENT PAST.
  • 07:49 I WOULD CHARACTERIZE ISRAEL WITH 3 TERMS ATTACHED TO THE WORD DEMOCRACY:
  • 07:55 A SHOUTING DEMOCRACY, A CANTANKEROUS DEMOCRACY AND AN EMBATTLED ONE,
  • 08:01 BECAUSE WE CONSTANTLY HAVE TO DEFEND THOSE VALUES WHICH IN SOME PLACES IN THE WORLD,
  • 08:06 I MUST SAY, UNTIL SEPT. 11, WERE TAKEN FOR GRANTED.
  • 08:09 WHERE AS TODAY, I THINK THE REST OF THE WORLD UNDERSTANDS
  • 08:11 AND THANK GOD THERE IS A LEADER >>OF THE FREE WORLD NAMED PRES. GEORGE W. BUSH
  • 08:18 THAT IS LEADING THE BATTLE AGAINST, FOR DEMOCRACY,
  • 08:21 THAT IS STATING IT IN VERY CLEAR TERMS, LISTEN FELLOWS, IF YOU WANT DEMOCRACY,
  • 08:26 IF YOU WANT LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, >>YOU GOT TO STAND AND DEFEND IT.
  • 08:31 IT DOESN'T COME FOR FREE.
  • 08:32 WELL, ALL RIGHT, YOU HAVE ARABS >>IN THE LAND, PALESTINIANS, THEY STYLE THEMSELVES
  • 08:39 AND THEY DON'T HAVE DEMOCRACY, >>NOTHING CLOSE TO IT.
  • 08:43 CAN'T THEY JUST LOOK ACROSS THE >>STREET AND SAY TO THEMSELVES,
  • 08:47 THE ISRAELI SOCIETY IS BETTER, >>FREER, MORE PRODUCTIVE, THE KIDS ARE HAPPIER,
  • 08:54 THE SCHOOLS ARE BETTER, >>THEY'RE NOT KILLING EACH OTHER >>OR ANYONE ELSE.
  • 08:58 CAN'T THEY SEE IT AND CAN'T THEY >>MAKE IT HAPPEN.
  • 09:01 I BELIEVE THAT THE PALESTINIAN >>SOCIETY HAS THE PROSPECT OF BECOMING A REAL DEMOCRACY
  • 09:07 MAINLY BECAUSE OF THIS SO-CALLED "OCCUPATION", I CALL IT,
  • 09:12 AND THE CONTACT THEY CAME WITH ISRAEL.
  • 09:14 BUT ALAS, THERE IS A PROBLEM BECAUSE THEY WERE STANDING CROSS-PRESSURES.
  • 09:19 ON THE ONE HAND THE PRESSURE TO DEMOCRATIZE,
  • 09:22 TO BE LIKE YOUR ISRAELI COUNTERPART, TO HAVE THE SAME FREEDOM.
  • 09:25 AT THE SAME TIME, THE SHACKLE OF ISLAM, THE SHACKLE OF TRADITION
  • 09:30 WHICH ARE PUSHING THEM BACKWARDS AND YOU CAN SEE THAT FIGHTING TODAY
  • 09:35 WHEN THE PALESTINIAN SOCIETY IS >>ACTUALLY TORN BETWEEN
  • 09:38 THIS QUEST FOR DEVELOPING THIS CULTURAL HATE THAT BREEDS THOSE >>SUICIDE BOMBERS
  • 09:47 ON THE ONE HAND AND ON THE OTHER HAND,
  • 09:48 THE EFFORT OF SOME OF THOSE >>PEOPLE TO MOVE THE PALESTINIAN SOCIETY IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION
  • 09:53 AND THIS CONSTANT BATTLE >>BETWEEN THESE FORCES, YOU KNOW,
  • 09:57 IS REALLY PUTTING A LOT OF PRESSURE AND IN SOME PLACE,
  • 10:00 EVEN TEARING APART THE PALESTINIAN SOCIETY.
  • 10:02 IT'S SOMEWHAT A MICROCOSM OF WHAT'S GOING AND THE BIGGER ISSUES WITH AMERICA IN IRAQ
  • 10:08 AND AFGHANISTAN AND SO ON, DEMOCRACY MEETS OLD FASHIONED DICTATORSHIPS.
  • 10:15 WHEN WE ARE SAYING THAT THESE SOCIETIES, THE IRAQI SOCIETY
  • 10:19 WHICH ALSO HAS A POTENTIAL OF EMERGING AS A DEMOCRACY,
  • 10:22 THE IRANIAN SOCIETY OR THE PALESTINIAN SOCIETY,
  • 10:25 HAVE TO EXORCISE TERRORISM FROM WITHIN THE BODY OF THEIR SOCIETY.
  • 10:30 IT'S NOT FOR OUR SAKE ONLY, YES, TERRORISM IS A THREAT TO WESTERN SOCIETY.
  • 10:36 TERRORISM IS A THREAT TO OUR WAY OF LIFE,
  • 10:38 BUT IT'S A GREATER THREAT TO >>THEIR PROSPECTS TO MOVE FORWARD >>TO A DIFFERENT FUTURE
  • 10:44 BECAUSE THE TERRORISM EATS THEIR SOCIETY FROM WITHIN.
  • 10:48 EVENTUALLY CIVIL SOCIETY DETERIORATES THERE
  • 10:50 AND ALL YOU HAVE IS A GROUP OF YANKS, YOU KNOW, FIGHTING EACH OTHER
  • 10:54 LIKE YOU HAD IN LEBANON IN THE 70'S AND 80'S.
  • 10:57 YOU HAD A PERFECT LABORATORY IN >>THE 80'S IN LEBANON.
  • 11:01 YES, SURE DID.
  • 11:01 WHICH FORCED US THEN TO GO FIGHT TERRORISM THERE BECAUSE LEBANON >>DETERIORATED
  • 11:07 MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE EFFECT THAT THE PALESTINIAN TERRORIST GROUPS
  • 11:11 HAD THERE ON THE OVER ALL BALANCE OF FORCES BETWEEN CHRISTIANS AND MUSLIM
  • 11:15 AND THE CIVIL WAR THAT WAS GOING >>ON WHICH THE PALESTINIANS FUELED IT.
  • 11:20 IT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD EXPLANATION OF WHAT HAPPENED THERE.
  • 11:24 WE'RE AT A POINT WITH THIS ROADMAP, IF IT'S STILL ON ANYBODY'S DASHBOARD,
  • 11:31 IT SEEMS ALMOST AT AN END AND WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
  • 11:36 YOU'RE R IGHT AT THE CENTER OF THIS.
  • 11:38 IT'S INTERESTING THAT EVERY TIME >>THEY SAY THE ROADMAP IS DEAD,
  • 11:43 WE TRY A NEW AVENUE AND A NEW APPROACH.
  • 11:45 THIS COMES BECAUSE A VERY >>IMPORTANT HISTORICAL ANTECEDENT >>THAT MUST BE UNDERSTOOD
  • 11:50 IF YOU ARE TO UNDERSTAND THE DIMENSIONS OF THIS CONFLICT >>BETWEEN US AND THE ARAB WORLD.
  • 11:56 FOR US, PEACE IS A NATURAL CHOICE.
  • 11:58 IT'S PART AND PARCEL OF OUR CULTURE.
  • 12:00 THEY SAY PART AND PARCEL OF OUR RELIGION.
  • 12:03 OUR PRAYER BOOK CONCLUDES, PRAYING FOR PEACE EVERY DAY.
  • 12:07 SO, WE'RE ALMOST BORN WITH THE WORD "PEACE".
  • 12:10 ONE MILLION STUDENTS THAT ENTERED THE CLASSROOM THIS YEAR IN SEPTEMBER
  • 12:17 AND OUT OF THEM ABOUT HALF A MILLION STUDENTS WHO ENTERED FIRST GRADE.
  • 12:23 THE FIRST WORD THE SEE ONTHE BLACKBOARD IS "SHALOM".
  • 12:27 PEACE AND SHALOM WHICH IS ALSO HELLO.
  • 12:30 THAT'S THE FIRST WORD THEY >>LEARN, THEY LEARN HOW TO WRITE.
  • 12:33 IS THIS THE WORD THEY LEARN IN >>PALESTINIAN SCHOOLS? I DOUBT IT.
  • 12:37 SO FOR US, PEACE IS A NATURAL CHOICE.
  • 12:39 FOR THESE ARAB SOCIETIES, WHICH ARE REALLY DON'T HAVE A DEMOCRATIC TRADITION
  • 12:44 AND DON'T HAVE A TRADITION WHERE THE PEOPLE GOVERN THEIR OWN LIFE.
  • 12:48 THE RULERS OF THESE COUNTRIES WILL ACCEPT PEACE ONLY BY DEFAULT,
  • 12:55 IN OTHER WORDS, PEACE COMES BY >>DEFAULT AFTER WAR HAS FAILED
  • 12:59 AND IF THE CONTINUATION OF >>VIOLENCE AND TERRORISM IS ABOUT >>TO BRING ABOUT THEIR DEMISE,
  • 13:07 THEN THEY WILL OPT FOR PEACE.
  • 13:08 THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED IN '91 WHEN THE UNITED STATES WON THE GULF WAR.
  • 13:11 THEY CAME TO THE MADRID CONFERENCE BY DEFAULT, NOT BY CHOICE.
  • 13:16 FOR US IT ALWAYS BY CHOICE.
  • 13:17 THEREFORE WHEN SOMEONE TELLS YOU, WELL THE ROADMAP IS DEAD >>BECAUSE THE ISRAELI KILLED IT.
  • 13:21 WE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO REVIVE THE ROADMAP TO PEACE.
  • 13:27 BY THE WAY, WE DON'T NEED A MAP >>TO THE ROAD TO PEACE. WE KNOW THE ROAD TO PEACE.
  • 13:33 IT'S THE OTHER SIDE, THE MAP WAS INTENDED FOR THE OTHER SIDE
  • 13:37 AND THE MAP MEANS STAGES BY WHICH YOU FULFILL THE PEACE PROCESS.
  • 13:43 THE ROADMAP TO PEACE WAS STALLED >>OR IS IN DEEP FREEZE
  • 13:47 NOT BECAUSE WE DID NOT WANT TO PROGRESS AND DID NOT WANT TO GO.
  • 13:50 WE STARTED WITH CONFIDENCE BUILDING MEASURES AND UNILATERAL MEASURES
  • 13:54 FOR THE VERY SIMPLE FACT THAT THIS PLAN OR THIS PROGRAM
  • 13:59 IS BASED ON PERFORMANCE RATHER >>THAN ON DECLARATION
  • 14:03 AND THE PALESTINIANS HAD TO PERFORM THEIR PART
  • 14:06 AND THEIR PART REQUIRED THAT THEY TAKE REAL STEPS
  • 14:09 TO DISMANTLE THE TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, STOP TERRORISM,
  • 14:12 STOP INCITEMENT AND THEY HAVEN'T >>TAKEN THOSE STEPS FOR A WHOLE VARIETY OF REASONS.
  • 14:18 THE MINUTE THERE WILL BE A LEADERSHIP
  • 14:20 THAT WILL BE WILLING TO START MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION,
  • 14:23 YOU'LL SEE THAT THE PEACE PROCESS WILL BE REVIVED.
  • 14:25 DO YOU SINCERELY THINK-- IN AMERICA WE SAY THE PALESTINIANS WANT PEACE.
  • 14:31 IN WESTERN DEMOCRACIES WE SAY EVERYONE WANTS PEACE,
  • 14:34 BUT DO YOU SINCERELY BELIEVE THAT THE PALESTINIANS WANT PEACE?
  • 14:39 THEY HAVEN'T ASKED FOR PEACE.
  • 14:41 BY DEFAULT.
  • 14:42 THAT'S WHAT I TRIED TO EXPLAIN, >>BY DEFAULT.
  • 14:44 IN OTHER WORDS, THEY HAVE COME >>TO REALIZE AFTER 3 YEARS >>THAT THEY CAN'T DEFEAT ISRAEL,
  • 14:50 THEY CAN'T BRING ISRAEL TO SURRENDER OR TO FALL APART AT THE SEAMS
  • 14:55 AS NASSRALLAH PORTRAYED ISRAEL, THIS IS LIKE A SPIDER WEB THAT WILL FALL APART UNDER PRESSURE.
  • 15:05 BECAUSE WE WITHDREW FROM LEBANON,
  • 15:06 THEY HAD THE WRONG ASSESSMENT >>THAT IF THEY MOUNT THIS ATTACK >>AGAINST THE ISRAELI SOCIETY,
  • 15:13 IT WILL FALL APART AT THE SEAMS, >>ISRAEL WILL MAKE CONCESSIONS
  • 15:16 AND THEN THEY COULD CONTINUE WITH THEIR, WHAT THEY CALL,
  • 15:19 PLANNED STAGES OF BRINGING THE DISMANTLEMENT OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.
  • 15:27 IT DIDN'T WORK AND NOW SUDDENLY >>THOSE MORE PRAGMATIC FORCES
  • 15:32 AMONG THE PALESTINIAN POLITICAL BODY WERE SAYING, WAIT, LISTEN >>IT DIDN'T WORK.
  • 15:38 WE'VE GOT TO CHANGE OUR APPROACH.
  • 15:41 ABU MAZAN REFLECTS THAT APPROACH.
  • 15:42 ABU ALLA AND OTHER INTELLECTUALS >>AND THEY SAID, LOOK IT DIDN'T WORK.
  • 15:47 YASSER ARAFAT ADOPTED A STRATEGY >>OF TERROR THAT FAILED.
  • 15:50 LET'S FACE IT, IT FAILED. IT DOESN'T WORK.
  • 15:52 MORE AND MORE YOUNG PEOPLE GET KILLED FOR NOTHING.
  • 15:56 IT DOESN'T LEAD US ONE STEP AHEAD.
  • 15:57 ON THE CONTRARY, THE SUICIDE >>BOMBING WAS COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE
  • 16:00 IN TERMS OF INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT.
  • 16:01 THE PALESTINIANS ALWAYS BELIEVE >>THAT THEIR STRATEGY OF ACHIEVING A STATE
  • 16:05 WILL BE BASED ON INTERNATIONAL >>PRESSURE AND SUPPORT AND THEY'RE LOSING.
  • 16:08 THEY WERE LOSING THAT KIND OF SUPPORT BECAUSE OF THIS HORRENDOUS SUICIDE BOMBING
  • 16:13 AND I THINK ANOTHER "ACCIDENT" >>THAT SPOILED THEIR PLAN WAS, OF COURSE, 9-11.
  • 16:22 OH SURE.
  • 16:23 THE MINUTE TERRORISM WENT GLOBAL >>AND THEY COULD NOT SEPARATE THEIR TERROR AND SAY,
  • 16:28 OUR'S IS DIFFERENT THAN THE REST BECAUSE THE PRACTICE IS THE SAME >>AND THE PICTURE,
  • 16:32 THE HORRENDOUS PICTURE OF DEATH AND CARNAGE OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS
  • 16:37 WERE SPREAD ALL OVER THE WORLD.
  • 16:38 THEY COULDN'T VERY WELL DEFEND IT.
  • 16:39 AND YET THE MEDIA, HOW CAN YOU >>ACCOUNT FOR THE MEDIA CALL THE PEOPLE, LET'S SAY,
  • 16:46 THE PEOPLE WHO ATTACKED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER CERTAINLY CALLED TERRORIST,
  • 16:49 IN IRAQ, PEOPLE THAT ATTACK THE COALITION FORCES ARE TERRORISTS.
  • 16:53 BUT IN ISRAEL, THEY ARE MILITANTS, THEY ARE FREEDOM FIGHTERS.
  • 16:58 WHAT KIND OF LANGUAGE IS THAT?
  • 16:59 YOU KNOW, TO MANY PEOPLE WHO >>SUPPORT THE PALESTINIAN MOVEMENT >>WHO SUPPORT,
  • 17:06 THERE'S COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.
  • 17:08 THEY FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THAT >>THIS BRAND OF TERRORISM IS LEADING NOWHERE,
  • 17:14 THAT ARAFAT IS NOT WHAT HE CLAIMED TO BE,
  • 17:16 BUT A MASTER OF A 3D SHOW, >>DECEPTION, DUPLICITY AND DECEIT.
  • 17:24 THAT'S VERY CLEVER.
  • 17:25 EVERYTHING THAT HE SAYS IS LIES.
  • 17:27 HE DIDN'T FULFILL ONE AGREEMENT >>THAT HE SIGNED, NOT ONLY WITH US, BUT WITH ANY OTHER.
  • 17:33 HE LEAD HIS PEOPLE ASTRAY TO NOWHERE AND THEY THEMSELVES ADMIT IT.
  • 17:38 THEY ADMIT THAT WHEN IT COMES TO >>THE DAY TO DAY CONDUCT OF GOVERNING PALESTINIAN LIFE,
  • 17:45 IT WAS A COMPLETE FAILURE, BUT HE REMAINS THE SYMBOL.
  • 17:48 OH SURE.
  • 17:49 WHEN YOU ASK THE QUESTION, WHO IS YOUR LEADER?
  • 17:51 THEY WILL SAY ARAFAT IS THE >>LEADER BECAUSE HE IS THE SYMBOL OF THE PALESTINIAN REVOLUTION,
  • 17:57 BUT WHEN YOU ASK THE QUESTION, >>WHO WOULD YOU WANT TO GOVERN,
  • 18:01 DO YOU THINK THAT HE CAN GOVERN WELL AND HE COULD LEAD YOU OUT >>OF THERE
  • 18:05 AND THE ANSWER WOULD BE NEGATIVE.
  • 18:07 IF YOU PUT THEM IN THE KIND OF >>POSITION WHERE THEY ARE NOT IDENTIFIED.
  • 18:11 IT'S LIKE THE WIZARD OF OZ WHEN HE'S CAUGHT
  • 18:14 SAYS, "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE >>MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN".
  • 18:16 ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IN THE MIDDLE EAST IS THAT TYRANTS, DICTATORS
  • 18:23 HAVE A VERY EASY WAY WHEN THEY ASCEND, WHEN THEY GET INTO POWER >>VERY QUICKLY THEY ASCEND,
  • 18:31 BUT IT TAKES, BUT IT'S VERY SLOW BEFORE THEY DEPART AND LEAVE THE >>STAGE OF HISTORY.
  • 18:36 LOOK AT SADDAM HUSSEIN AND LOOK AT ARAFAT HOW LONG THESE PEOPLE >>HAVE SURVIVED
  • 18:40 BECAUSE THEY BUILT AROUND THEMSELVES A SYSTEM THAT IS VERY HARD TO DISMANTLE,
  • 18:45 SYSTEM OF SECURITY FORCES >>ACCUMULATING MONEY AND THE KIND >>OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT
  • 18:52 THAT MAKES THEM ALMOST IMMUNE TO THE REGULAR PROCESSES OF REGIME CHANGE.
  • 19:00 WELL, AND YET IN THE WESTERN WORLD IN FRANCE,
  • 19:03 THERE WAS A RICH ARISTOCRACY IN CONTROL WHEN THE PEOPLE REVOLTED.
  • 19:07 IN AMERICA THE BRITISH REDCOATS >>HAD TOTAL CONTROL AND A FEW FARMERS REVOLTED
  • 19:13 AND YET IN BOTH CASES THEY OVERTHREW THE DICTATORSHIP
  • 19:18 AND ESTABLISHED SOME KIND OF REPUBLIC.
  • 19:19 HOW COME, IN POPULOUS ARAB >>NATIONS WITH MILLIONS OF SOULS >>UNDER A HEEL,
  • 19:26 HOW COME THEY CANNOT JUST REVOLT >>AND THROW THE GUY OUT OF THE PALACE?
  • 19:31 THERE IS NO DEMOCRATIC TRADITION >>AND THESE REGIMES LIKE IRAQ, SADDAM HUSSEIN IN IRAQ,
  • 19:39 YASSER ARAFAT IN THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, ASSAD, THE FATHER OF BASHAR,
  • 19:46 THEY DEVELOPED A TOTALITARIAN REGIME MODELED AFTER, IF YOU WANT,
  • 19:52 THE MOST EFFECTIVE AND RUTHLESS TOTALITARIAN REGIME THAT EXISTED IN EUROPE
  • 19:58 IN NAZI GERMANY OR IN FASCIST ITALY.
  • 20:02 THIS IS A SYSTEM WHERE YOU HAVE >>A STATE WITHIN A STATE.
  • 20:06 THE RULER AND HIS CLOSE SUPPORTERS
  • 20:08 HAVE FULL CONTROL OF >>THE MEANS OF COERCIVE POWER OF >>THE MEDIA,
  • 20:12 OF MONEY AND FINANCIAL SUPPORT >>SO WHEN IT COMES TO THE POINT WHERE THE REGIME IS TOPPLED
  • 20:18 AND MANY OF THE INSTITUTION AROUND THEM FALL APART,
  • 20:21 THE NUCLEUS OF THE HARD CORE >>NUCLEUS OF THE LEADER AND THOSE >>SURROUNDING HIM,
  • 20:26 WHAT I CALL SORT OF THE PREROGATIVE STATE, PREROGATIVE GOVERNMENT
  • 20:30 STAYS IN POWER AND UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY HIT THE PERSON, THE MAN OR REMOVE HIM,
  • 20:36 THE WHOLE SYSTEM WILL CONTINUE >>TO FUNCTION AND IT FUNCTIONS BECAUSE OF FEAR.
  • 20:39 IT FUNCTIONS BECAUSE OF THE USE OF FEAR
  • 20:44 AND OF COURSE ALSO INTIMIDATION >>AND TEMPTATION, MONEY.
  • 20:48 THESE THREE ELEMENTS SEEM TO BE >>MUCH MORE POWERFUL MEANS TO SUSTAIN DICTATORSHIP
  • 20:55 THAN THE HOPE THAT DEMOCRACY OFFERS TO THE PEOPLE TO OVERTHROW THEM.
  • 21:00 OKAY, WHAT'S YOUR HUNCH, WHAT'S >>GOING TO HAPPEN, SAY STARTING WITH IRAQ?
  • 21:05 I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING >>WAS THE ACTION TAKEN BY PRESIDENT BUSH
  • 21:10 WHEN THE U.S. FORCES TOOK OVER >>IRAQ AND REALLY SET IN MOTION PROCESSES WHICH MAY BE SLOW
  • 21:18 BUT WHICH ARE NOW ALREADY GOING >>ON TO DEMOCRATIZE IRAQ, TO CHANGE THE REGIME IN IRAQ.
  • 21:24 THIS WILL HAVE FAR REACHING >>IMPLICATION ON THE MIDDLE EAST >>BECAUSE IF IRAQ,
  • 21:28 I'M NOT SURE IT'S GOING TO BE A >>FULL DEMOCRACY
  • 21:31 IN THE PERIOD THAT THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO OCCUPY IT,
  • 21:33 BUT AT LEAST IT IS WILL EMERGE AS A PRO-WESTERN SOCIETY WITH A >>STABLE REGIME, I BELIEVE
  • 21:40 AND THAT WILL PROJECT ON THE REST OF THE MIDDLE EAST A DIFFERENT KIND OF ATMOSPHERE
  • 21:47 BECAUSE THE MIDDLE EAST WILL >>CEASE TO BE A HAVEN OR SANCTUARY FOR TERRORISTS AND ROGUE STATES.
  • 21:56 THERE WILL BE OTHER MODELS OF STATE, A BIG STATE
  • 21:59 BECAUSE IRAQ IS A MAJOR COUNTRY >>IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
  • 22:03 IT'S A REGIONAL POWER IF YOU WANT
  • 22:04 AND IT WILL BE A COUNTERVEILING >>FORCE TO IRAN WHICH REPRESENT THE RADICAL.
  • 22:10 IN A SENSE THE SPLIT OF THE MIDDLE EAST WILL ONLY BRING BLESSING TO THE WORLD
  • 22:14 AND WHAT YOU NEED IS HAVE A GROUP OF STATES LIKE IRAQ, LIKE JORDAN, LIKE ISRAEL
  • 22:19 WHICH WILL REPRESENT THE FUTURE IN TERMS OF DEMOCRACY, FREEDOM, >>FREE ECONOMY,
  • 22:27 ALL THESE CONCEPTS WHICH ARE VERY CRITICAL CAN BE REALIZED
  • 22:32 IF THE UNITED STATES CONTINUES TO SET IN MOTION WHAT IT STARTED AFTER THE VICTORY AGAINST IRAQ.
  • 22:40 OKAY AND YOUR HUNCH ABOUT ISRAEL,
  • 22:41 WHERE ARE WE GOING WITH THE PALESTINIANS, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN?
  • 22:45 I'M OPTIMISTIC, GUARDED OPTIMISTIC.
  • 22:48 THERE ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE PITFALLS.
  • 22:50 TERRORISM IS NOT GOING TO DISAPPEAR FROM OUR LIFE, BUT WE CAN CONTAIN IT.
  • 22:54 I BELIEVE THERE WILL ELEMENTS IN THE PALESTINIAN SOCIETY
  • 22:56 THAT WILL WANT TO REACH AND AGREEMENT WITH US AN WE WILL REACH AN AGREEMENT,
  • 23:01 NOT PEACE, BUT A TEMPORARY LONG-TERM AGREEMENT.
  • 23:05 THE REASON WE CAN'T REACH PEACE IS,
  • 23:06 GOING BACK TO THE THINGS THAT I JUST SAID AT THE BEGINNING OF THE INTERVIEW.
  • 23:10 FOR US, PEACE IS A NATURAL CHOICE, FOR THEM, IT COMES BY DEFAULT.
  • 23:13 WE HAVE RECOGNIZED THE INHERENT >>RIGHTS OF THE PALESTINIAN AND THE ARABS
  • 23:19 TO HAVE COUNTRIES OF THEIR OWN, THE INHERENT INALIENABLE RIGHTS
  • 23:23 THAT THEY ARE CITIZENS OF THEIR COUNTRIES.
  • 23:28 THE PALESTINIANS AND THE ARAB IN GENERAL
  • 23:31 HAVE NOT YET RECONCILED WITH THE FACT
  • 23:33 THAT JEWS ALSO HAVE AN INALIENABLE INHERENT RIGHT
  • 23:37 TO HAVE A STATE OF THEIR OWN IN >>THEIR ANCESTRAL HOMELAND.
  • 23:41 THE DENIAL IS TWO FOLD.
  • 23:42 THEY DENY THAT THIS IS OUR ANCESTRAL HOMELAND, >>THE DENY THAT WE ARE A PEOPLE.
  • 23:45 SO THEY RECOGNIZE THE STATE NOT BECAUSE OF OUR RIGHT, BUT BECAUSE OF OUR MIGHT.
  • 23:50 TRUE PEACE WILL ONLY COME ABOUT >>AND ALL OTHER ISSUES WILL BE RESOLVED,
  • 23:55 THE TERRITORIAL ISSUE, >>THE OTHER CAN BE EASILY RESOLVED
  • 23:57 ONCE THERE IS MUTUAL RECOGNITION OF THE INALIENABLE RIGHTS OF THE >>TWO PEOPLE
  • 24:03 AND NOT JUST SAYING THAT WE RECOGNIZE THERE IS A GENEVA DOCUMENT NOW.
  • 24:07 THEY SAY WE RECOGNIZE A JEWISH STATE, WELL, FOR ALL PRACTICAL PURPOSES IT CAN BE ON THE MOON
  • 24:13 OR UNDERGROUND UNDER THE TEMPLE, >>BUT NOT ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.
  • 24:18 THIS JEWISH STATE, AND THAT THEY MUST RECONCILE WITH THIS FACT, >>THIS JEWISH STATE IS HERE.
  • 24:25 THIS JEWISH STATE IS ONLY GOING >>TO BE HERE WITH IT'S CAPITAL JERUSALEM
  • 24:30 BECAUSE OF ONE SIMPLE REASON: WE ARE NOT THE COLONIZING FORCES >>OF THIS REGION.
  • 24:36 WE ARE THE ORIGINAL NATIVES.
  • 24:37 JEWS NEVER STOPPED LIVING IN THIS REGION AND PARTICULARLY IN THEIR HOMELAND.
  • 24:42 FOR 3000 YEARS CONTINUOUSLY, JEWS ALWAYS LIVED,
  • 24:45 THEY WERE PERSECUTED, THEY WERE DRIVEN OUT, THEY CAME BACK AND >>THEY CONTINUE TO LIVE HERE.
  • 24:49 I'M A 6TH GENERATION ISRAELI. >>MY GREAT GRANDFATHER CAME IN 1881.
  • 24:55 HE DIDN'T COME BECAUSE HE WAS PART OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT.
  • 24:58 HE CAME BECAUSE HE WAS ARMED WITH THE BIBLE
  • 25:01 AND HE TRULY BELIEVED THIS IS THE HOMELAND OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE
  • 25:04 AND HE TOOK THE BIBLE WITH HIM AND THE MONEY HE MADE IN RUSSIA
  • 25:09 AND ESTABLISHED A HOMESTEAD IN ISRAEL.
  • 25:11 PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE CENTURIES >>CONTINUE TO COME.
  • 25:15 THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT WOULD HAVE >>BEEN A COMPLETE FAILURE IF IT WASN'T THE INCULCATION
  • 25:19 AND THE BELIEF OF EVERY JEW THAT EVENTUALLY THEY HAVE TO COME BACK TO JERUSALEM.
  • 25:26 THAT'S THE PLACE WHERE THEY BELONG.
  • 25:38 IN THE BIBLE AND HISTORY BOTH >>TEACH US THAT ISRAEL IS CREATED >>AS A JEWISH NATION BY GOD,
  • 25:45 THE PRESENT ISRAEL FROM THE HOLOCAUST, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE,
  • 25:49 THE JEWS NEEDED A PLACE THEY COULD GO.
  • 25:51 IN ANCIENT TIMES THEY FLED PHARAOH AND WENT TO ANCIENT ISRAEL
  • 25:56 AND THEY FLED FROM ONE OCCUPIER >>AFTER ANOTHER AND SO ON
  • 26:02 BUT THE LAND HAS ALWAYS BEEN THEIRS SINCE GOD GAVE IT TO THEM.
  • 26:06 THE CRUSADERS WERE MISGUIDED.
  • 26:07 TODAY THE ARABS IN THE LAND WHO CALL THEMSELVES PALESTINIANS FOR SOME REASON HAVE THE SAME FAULT.
  • 26:15 THEY WANT THE LAND GOD HAS GIVEN >>TO ISRAEL BY DIVINE RIGHT.
  • 26:39 WHATEVER PROTESTANT DENOMINATION >>HELPS THE PALESTINIANS
  • 26:43 IS CONTRARY TO SCRIPTURE AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO THAT.
  • 26:47 SHA'ALU SHALOM YERUSHALYIM, >>PRAY FOR THE PEACE OF JERUSALEM.

Episodes in this series

  1. The Invasion
  2. The Old New Land
  3. The Ambassador Speaks
  4. The Real War on Terrorism
  5. Our Man in Jerusalem
  6. A Clash of Civilizations
  7. The Humble Knight
  8. The Apple of His Eye

Guest organizations and links

Zola Levitt Presents
Levitt Letter
Tours
Podcasts